1st of the Month Bonus Episode: Simon Says - The Airbnb Bubble has BURST

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We'll start the show in just a minute, but first a word from our premier brand sponsor, casago, and co-sponsors, guest Ranger and Good Neighbor Tech.

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Visit casagocom forge slash franchise guest rangercom and goodneighbertechcom for more information.

Speaker 3: 1:37

Welcome to Alex and Annie, the real women of vacation rentals. With more than 35 years combined industry experience, alex Hussner and Annie Holcomb have teamed up to connect the dots between inspiration and opportunity, seeking to find the one's story, idea, strategy or decision that led to their guest's big aha moment. Join them as they highlight the real stories behind the people and brands that have built vacation rentals into the $100 billion industry. It is today and now it's time to get real and have some fun with your hosts, alex and Annie.

Speaker 1: 2:14

Welcome to Alex and Annie, the real women of vacation rentals. I'm Alex and I'm Annie, and we are back today for the August 1st, first of the month, bonus episode, starring none other than Simon Lehman. Simon, it's so good to see you.

Speaker 4: 2:30

Hi ladies, hi Alex and Annie, it's great to be here working on a vacation, or I'm facing a vacation right now.

Speaker 2: 2:37

I love it. You're coming to us from Spain, which is amazing.

Speaker 4: 2:42

Absolutely. You see the beautiful background of Alicante beach on the Costa Blanca and I am currently with my family in Spain and enjoying the super brutal heat and the beautiful food of Spain.

Speaker 1: 2:57

Very jealous. Yeah, we're still just back here in South Carolina and Florida working our tails off, but we're glad this is just as hot, but not enjoying the scenery, exactly, exactly. So, simon, we wanted to have you back today. You were most recently on the show for our May 1st of the month, and have been on several first of the months over the past year to give your update on things that you're seeing from your side of the world as far as travel and the economy is going, and we last saw you at the VRMA Executive Summit, which also was in May, and I think you gave some pretty accurate depictions on where things are going. But let's just start with that. Where do you think the? What has summer travel shown us so far? What is 2023 shown us so far and what is the landscape that we're all in right now?

Speaker 4: 3:46

Absolutely, I think, all over, and this is not a very direct answer, but the picture is very blurry and, once again, we can obviously not generalize. When we look at destinations and travel behavior, et cetera, et cetera. Some are benefiting, some are suffering, some markets are softening, some markets are reasonably solid, others are going back to 2019 levels. Interesting enough, just today there was something published that there's a news announcement in the Swiss television today that the hottest destination in Switzerland is the United States. So this is quite interesting to see. And when you look at the airfares, we have seen prices and prices on the airfares we have seen today we have not seen in the last four or five years. It's unbelievable. The airfares have gone to levels which is incredible, which obviously paints a certain picture. Airlines are not back to full capacity, whereas the demand is high, so they can afford a lot higher rates. And with the business class fares, I'm traveling to the States in the beginning of August and I looked at the fares on economy and business class fares. I've never seen prices like that before. For the climate, it's great if people travel less, but at the end of the day, we also look at the travel overall and I think we have seen different behaviors in terms of the way people consume travel and where they travel. I think what I'm seeing is that there's a big spike in 23 for international travel. I believe in 24, we'll go back to more domestic demand again because interest rates are rising, cost of living is increasing. Let's not use the word recession here right now, but obviously at European Central Bank just raised another quarter today. It has not stopped with increasing interest rates and that will hurt the pockets of the travelers and at the moment they still seem to be pretty confident. They want to get out there. They still depend on demand from the past. But I think 23 is going to be the peak, also from international travel standpoint, and then we will see different travel behavior in 24 and going forward.

Speaker 2: 6:02

You guys are going through what we went through last year in the US, where everybody was able to get out of the country and go to Europe, and now you guys are coming over here. But I think it's interesting. Back in May, we talked about this bubble that was coming up to the surface and what that meant for the industry, and I think we talked about it last fall, where things were going to get back to reality and people just needed to stop being blind to all the signs that were coming down the road in terms of rates and demand and again, don't want to use the word recession, but in that guys like there was just things that were coming that we all saw happening, and so I think it's interesting to see where we are and there's been a lot of chatter around Airbnb and where they are in terms of their business model and their recognizing the signs, and some of their messaging now has gone back to their roots and gone back to where they were the individual single room sharing a room in a home and so I'd like your thoughts around that topic. I know there's been a lot of fervor around some data that was shared around the bubble and I don't think that everybody's seeing it the same level, but it would be interesting from your perspective because you do have a global watch on it.

Speaker 4: 7:07

Yeah, great point, andy, and we're not saying Phoenix is down by 48%. That was a Twitter stomp that worked very well for that particular individual, but obviously raised the topic. But at the end of the day, the fact of the matter is the market have softened right. So obviously not to the extent that it was published. That brought the conversation of data back into the scheme of things, which I enjoyed. So we contacted all the data providers around that we enjoy a very good relationship with key data and transparent and air DNA and also all the rooms and data still. It just shows how data still remains extremely important but, at the same time, data is data and can be interpreted differently on one side and then the sources are different and that gives different results. So that's an agenda that I want to push at the Darm Conference in Nashville a lot because and we've already been in touch with all the data providers we need to get on top of that because these type of messages can be very hurtful for the industry. But, having said that, it remains clear and going back to my message in May is that if you look at the macroeconomical situation, either in the US or also in Europe, where interest rates are rising and cost of capital is increasing. That makes short-term rental less attractive for investors. It's very simple, and when the demand softens, you have a double whammy. You have less demand, lower ADR or a convency, but higher cost of rent. That means it becomes less attractive and that's something that I've been talking about basically from day one. I've talked about this since Masternly's came into the industry. We remember Lyric Stey, alfred Domeo Sonder, who did lease arbitrage. When people asked me what's happening to that business? Is that working, is that not? I said the biggest risk to that business is going to be increased cost of capital, because they pay up from rent and then get returns from it. Obviously, I didn't have to. They become my radar, but the radar killed them. Radar killed the lease arbitrage business. Now it's coming back and then everybody felt that this is gold mining time. I can buy a place, do it up. We have Airbnb podcasts and forums all over the world talking about how you become a $1 million host, but at the end of the day, it's the gamble on low cost of capital. Now cost of capital has increased tremendously and it's interesting that Airbnb announced their move to go back to their basics, or their core, very softly in a way, but it's actually obvious. That means cost of capital is raising and people who have just bought property to throw it on Airbnb's channel to create a better business and long term rent is now obviously decreasing. This is a massive opportunity for professional managers to gain more properties, professionally managed, for homeowners who have good assets to be looked after, and I think the Airbnb market, if you wish that bubble that. For me, I believe that has burst. I agree, strong statement, but that's how I see it.

Speaker 1: 10:30

Yeah, I agree, and there's so much in what you just said that we've talked about on this show recently and just really looking, even in our local markets, the interest rates are. They are. They're so high and if you wanted to sell your house right now, if you bought a few years ago at 3, 3.5 percent, now you're looking at 7 percent to buy something else, you're just not going to do it. So everything has slowed down. The people that have bought these properties. They're not getting the rents that they had expected in this passive income business. Just isn't exactly what they had thought it was going to be. I was just talking to somebody the other day and looking at what the how have the demographics changed and people that are traveling and booking on these sites. Airbnb is always trending towards millennials and younger travelers and if you look at in a lot of areas, it's where we're missing travelers right now. A lot of them is that demographic. So just wanted to get your thoughts on that of if you're hearing that from overseas as well and what the impact of that would be longterm.

Speaker 4: 11:28

Yeah, absolutely. Before I comment on that, alex, allow me to make a quick other example. This week I had a call with one of our customers in Colorado Springs. Just in regards to supply, we've seen property managers popping up in second and third-tier markets who have benefited tremendously from COVID, where people wanted to travel, but also in cheaper destinations and therefore the supply grew as well, because people bought properties in second and third-tier markets, and he told me that their churn rate is something that I have never seen before, which means a lot of owners are now selling their properties because the demand for second and third-tier markets are not the same anymore than what they used to be, so therefore they're selling their properties. That's happening. We need to accept that fact. We've seen numbers on Joshua Tree. We've seen numbers on other markets. They're not looking fantastic. So we're going back to basics. We're going back to 2019 in other markets. Coming back to your question in relation to who is traveling, and absolutely, as cost of living raises, also, the millennials need to think about where do I spend my money, how do I spend my money and what can I get from my money as well, and, I think, being more cost-conscious in how to travel, where to travel and everything else is having a direct impact in how you consume hospitality and there's no doubt I felt it even ourselves. We haven't been in Spain for two years as a family and I was amazed by how much cost of living and cost of food and restaurants and everything else and within the two years we haven't been here has increased and that raises anybody's questions to its own wallet and we've seen posts on LinkedIn about saying have you been to Europe lately? I've just seen a recent post about Carl Schepin has commented as well and say, hey, this has become crazy expensive and I think that that will impact the people and how they consume their travel, and it's going to be interesting to figure out. how does that like? What's the result of that? Where do they're going to go?

Speaker 1: 13:36

Yeah, the cost of rent for apartments or just leasing anything right now is crazy. Then obviously salaries have not increased to get to that point. So yeah, definitely definitely an issue, for sure.

Speaker 2: 13:51

Yeah, and I know one thing that the cost factor that I think a lot of people didn't take into like factor in. I always am keenly aware of it because I live in a state that is affected by hurricanes every year is insurance and we are state. We've been losing insurers weekly. They've been leaving the state and I've been isolated from it until this week found out that mine is not going to get renewed and I have to find a new homeowner's insurance. And because there's so few options it's increasing. And one of the things that I recall from the last real estate bubble is that insurance got so high because of foreclosures and things like that, people walking away from their properties, because again they bought at the height, weren't planning, weren't professionalized, weren't thinking about the long term ramifications of owning and managing a property. But you have a situation where now people just can't afford the insurance, so they're going to be underinsured or not insured. They can't buy a home because the insurance is so cost prohibitive and within the vacation rental industry specifically, like in condo areas, the reserves that were set aside or have been depleted over time because again they've had storms, they've had issues. They're paying for repairs, they're paying for just the common upkeep of a building, but now in fact are in insurance, and there's just no way that cost ultimately will get passed along to the consumer and it just makes the cost of travel regardless of where you go. There's something at play here, so I don't know what the answer is, and I don't know if there is an answer, but it's just certainly something that we have to be mindful of.

Speaker 4: 15:25

Yeah, absolutely, and it's a great point you're raising here and, ultimately, you're raising the point of our climate crisis. The fact of the matter is, we have a climate crisis. If we accept it or not. It's a big debate. I am definitely, certainly, 100% assured that we are having massive issues and they're not going to get better. So that's related to insurance and they 're related to other aspects. Insurance is definitely one, so I'm not saying that's going to get better. We have seen natural disasters we have never seen before. We have issues. The global warming is a fact. I'm in Spain. It's like a toaster outside. There's no water. Things are. We've seen, wrote us on fire. I can give you 10 natural disasters in the last week that are unprecedented. So it's a fact and therefore the issue with insurance is only going to increase. Today we talked about regulatory issues and we have a lot of people who are fighting advocacy which is fantastic, supporting advocacy making a lot of inroads in getting regulations. We've seen that Portugal have come to sense as well, which is great news that Portugal has now definitely better laws than what we anticipated for. But there's many different aspects and I think the natural impact and the disaster on climate crisis is only going to get bigger and bigger, and that is an interesting effect. Now also, the insurance companies are pulling out in Europe. We haven't seen that yet, that they wouldn't be covering properties in certain high risk areas or increase premiums Extremely. We have.

Speaker 1: 17:06

you guys don't get hurricanes quite like we do. We don't have hurricanes, we have put fires.

Speaker 4: 17:13

We have droughts, we have floods yeah, we have massive floods. We have seen floods like we have never seen before in certain areas of North of Italy and France and everything else. So I think this is something we need to get our heads around, also as owners and also as property managers, and we want to do a lot more on that area. In terms of global warming, and what can we do as property managers to improve sustainability of the product that we're offering? It's always said that our consumers want more sustainable products. It's actually quite interesting, just coming back from a two way vacation rental myself, and I still get these small plastic bottles for soap which will cover half of my family for one shower, right? It's just ridiculous, right? So we need to, and I believe we as an industry have a lot of impact. Might be small, but every impact has. Every bit can be no excuse.

Speaker 1: 18:14

Yeah, yeah, very true. So what do you think, simon? What does this all mean for companies that have been thinking about selling? We talked about that with you back in May and I've heard more that in the starting and starting the year and about March, ones that were teetering on it. Now they're starting to be more interested in pursuing that before things would potentially get worse. But what are you hearing? What do you see in?

Speaker 4: 18:41

Yeah, great question, alex, and it's interesting what you're saying because I can only support exactly that statement. Right, we've seen incredible couple of years. Everybody was pretty bullish and then all of a sudden, the demand for acquisition dropped and everybody, like the M&A market, basically dropped to zero transactions and we felt that ourselves as well, obviously. And now it's exactly happening the opposite. So now I can literally say, if I'm allowed to make a small sales statement on our side, but we're on the European M&A side, we're fully booked till the end of the year. We have so many portfolios now for sale, which is great, and we're doing our best, because now people, for exactly the purpose or the reason that you mentioned, alex, that people think about okay, we've seen incredible years that seeds going to be tough. I spoke to an Australian property manager yesterday and he said hey, we're going to put down our hatches for two years. We are securing X amount of millions in operating cash to weather the storm for the next 24 months. Okay, that's a statement, and he's been in the business for a long time. He's one of the most respected people in the Australian market and he said look, simon, we are in for a storm here, so we're going to put down the hatches and we're not going to increase, we're not going to do spending, we just run the business the way we have. We reduce our operating costs and we want to wear this storm for two years and we have X amount of operating cash. So this means, on an M&A side, you have to say now it's a great time to get out, because it's obviously good for consolidation, because there's still buyers out there, without a doubt, or you're going to weather the storm. So at the end of the day, for me it's a question you want to see better times, so you're going to be in it for another two or three years to have this conversation, or you might as well take what you have and say now it's a good time to buy. This doesn't mean, of course, the prices that we have seen or the multiples we have seen are going to potentially drop to a certain extent, but you still have buyers who now see opportunities in being more aggressive in the market to consolidate, which potentially fuels what they're willing to pay and see opportunities within two years to grow the business again. So I think that dynamic between March, what you said and now has just flipped. We're seeing more on the M&A side actually, like I thought, how would you lie? It's going to be a very quiet month. It's crazy, no.

Speaker 2: 21:24

There's a lot of opportunity. I think that's the nice thing with some of these ebbs and flows is it flips the opportunity, but for our industry it allows I feel it's going to allow us to get back to that focus on professionalization, because a lot of these people that got in it didn't get in it with any mindset of to really be professional. And I heard a term this week that it's a Lauren made well term, but it's about the people that got into the business thinking that they were just going to be able to, like, put a unit on Airbnb and become a millionaire, and it was passive my assive is what she'd coined it as, but it's true. And again, I think it's an opportunity for us to use the voice that we have gained traction with from COVID and get back together to say again we have to do something about climate change, we have to do something about professionalization, we have to do something about all of these things. And now it's like a meeting of all of the convergence, if you will, of all of these factors coming together that I hope at VRMA and at Darm we're going to be able to really elevate these parts of the industry, to have a deeper conversation to make change.

Speaker 4: 22:28

Alex and we all sound and I love what you guys are doing and we've known each other for a long time. We sound like a broken record, but that's exactly what it's all about. And now we're coming out of the heydays and now we're starting to realize again. I was being accused of staying on the stage of VRMA exactly with an umbrella in my hands, for whatever reasons, but ultimately I can only say I was right. We were right to see what's going to happen.

Speaker 3: 22:55

I'm sorry to say.

Speaker 4: 22:56

And as provoke this I refuse. Like when we do consulting mandates, we are not allowing our customers to use the word Airbnb in the conversation just as a game to see that we would. This is not what we are in the industry, and with your statement and you get me going we can have another two hours on this, because that's what we need to be mindful about, because we're coming back to the roots now. The heydays are over. The market is reshaping, flexible living all these things are definitely evolving, without a doubt, and hotels are still looking at our space. That's all great and dandy, but this is now the chance that we can get rid of the crap. Professionalized property management companies that's what AGL is all about. We want to professionalize this industry and have the best practices and, trust me, there's still a lot of work to do and I think the entry barrier to come into our industry has been far too low and will remain very low, with the exception of regulations and now a certain demand will supply will probably disappear from the market. Now it's a chance for professional property managers to get the game, and I want to close this statement quickly with the entrance speech of the Bureau of Executive from Jason Sprenkel. When he presented the data, he said and I repeated that on LinkedIn many times the last couple of months if you don't have good relations to homeowners today, There'll be somebody else's tomorrow.

Speaker 1: 24:25

Yeah, exactly, that's so true. Yeah, simon, I think you might have had probably just as successful, maybe even more career as a weatherman, because you're very good at predicting. Yeah, much better than most of them. I think they're only right probably 40% of the time, but it's. You're definitely skewing higher than that at this point. But I'd also like to get your thoughts on. You mentioned the low the barrier of entry to get into the industry. Yes, that is true, but I think that is getting higher and higher. And I say that just putting your property in Airbnb isn't just the way to do this anymore. So for companies that obviously were big into the book, direct movement and have always been part of companies that really believe in that, but how much is that going to play into the professional hosts getting inventory back that they've lost over the last few years, being able to show that they do other things besides, just for a bone-air BNB? Do you see that being a big part of this?

Speaker 4: 25:23

Yeah, alex Massif, and I love that. That's the conversation that I'm currently having as a consultant is homeowner facing right? Yeah, you remember the technology landscape that we have published with 420 companies? There's not a single one that homeowner facing Right, yeah, and 420 tech companies. And, to the point that I just made with Jason Sprinkle, we need to focus on homeowners and supply is going to be the key going forward, and that requires transparency and total honesty and transparency towards homeowners that have been educated through the Airbnb wave. They know what's possible, they know what's not possible. And one thing that I've said for six years running AGL is we have not been good enough to communicate our value proposition to homeowners and as property managers, and now it's the time to do that. We need to clearly show what we do for homeowners to run their properties, what we deal with cleaning, maintenance, guest communication, et cetera and be total, transparent in terms of what the fees are getting. We're getting into, what we pay out, what we get in, and not trying to hide fees from homeowners, et cetera. So I think that's exactly where the industry needs to go now and, interesting enough, I have not seen more movement on the homeowner side in technology than I have seen today. I'm currently in conversation with about four different tech companies who have built phenomenal homeowner portals to put full transparency towards homeowners, including really safe prices in their regions, including performance in their regions in terms of sales price and revenue, et cetera, et cetera, and I think that's exactly the way we need to do it. We need to get rid of the crap. Hormones are part of the game. We need to find that trust and be 100% honest and transparent to them so we can create loyalty because, at the end of the day, we build still a business on trust with homeowners. So this is a great point that you've raised here and I'm advocating for 100% transparency and building a relationship with homeowners like on a loss, even through tough times, because, as we all know, homeowners have been spoiled the last two years in terms of revenue and ADRs and everything else. They want to see that come back so they might shop around, and now it's time for total transparency to create this loyal relationship with homeowners so they stick with you, and therefore we need to do more on the education side to tell homeowners what property management is all about.

Speaker 2: 27:56

Yeah, it's all about knowing all of your customers and taking care of all of your customers, whether they be the customer that's renting the unit or the customer that's giving you the unit. There has to be that relationship. And again it goes back to something I know Chris Morgan talks about a lot with his IPRAC organization is just trust. We have to have trust full circle, and trust doesn't happen without transparency. So you're spot on.

Speaker 4: 28:19

Yeah, absolutely, and we still have a way to go, even from my own experience I've just stayed in the property for two weeks. It was not a good experience once again and the very established property management company. They didn't do an onboarding process well. We didn't even have a hairdryer or any cleaning materials in the property which we had to them demand. They were super responsive. It's still the basics and that's something we've talked about for so long, right, but homeowners need to know what it's there. One thing to talk about this quickly is, if you're a property manager of 400 units, you're managing 400 castles of 400 individuals, right, but the individual, he has only one castle and he gives that to you. So when do you give him the attention to manage his castle while you're managing 400 castles? And if you think about this when the owner is in town, you need to give him all the attention, All his attention? Yeah, definitely. You need to give him attention to somebody else. So you cannot manage 400 kings and queens at the same time, giving you 400 castles because you need to, because that's we need to be able to tell that our homeowners we can't manage 400 castles at the same time because we I know it's your cost when you worked hard for it and you bought it when you were 60 and you're so proud. But you have now this beautiful home that you're renting out, but we have 400 of those. So you just need to get out of that and make that very clear.

Speaker 2: 29:50

Yeah, I know one thing that we do at Homes and Villas and I'm very proud of is the way we onboard our accounts and what we go through to talk about the level of service and the expectation that the guest has, and really do a deep dive with each property management group to understand what their operations and where maybe their shortcomings are. And I think that if more organizations were mindful of that, there would be less friction on the back end when someone checks out or even when they arrive Again, if we just had the basics in play and the understanding that everybody wants everybody wants the same level of service. There are going to be some that are way more demanding and some of them that just don't care, but that those basics just need to be met. And so I think, from what Homes and Villas by Mariah Bonvoy is doing, is that we're focused on again trying to make sure that there is the basics in play, that the customer service is there, that they are taken care of, and if you as a manager can't provide that, then that's not a manager that we want to work with. But what does that say about your operation? You probably want to elevate that, because the guy that owns a castle likely wants his unit to be in front of somebody who's a Mariah guest, like there is all of these things that if we all work together to just get those basics in play, I am very driven this year. My like mantra for next year going into his education. We've just got to educate people but we have to show that we have to take them to the well. We can't force them to drink, but we just got to get them there and show them where the information is and it'll weed itself out eventually. And what's going?

Speaker 1: 31:18

to be interesting from a homeowner perspective. I do believe that this is going to be a great year for everybody to pick up inventory of what has been bought and is just not doing well this year. But I wonder, though, how are those homeowners going to be? Either the ones that left and came back or ones that are new to it? It's going to be a different shift for the professional companies that are used to homeowners that in a lot of these tourist destinations they've owned these properties for a very long time and it's more than just an investment property to them. The different type of homeowner clients, I think could be interesting to follow what that trend is. And we're all going to have to adapt. And, at the end of the day, your best customer is the one that's right in front of you. It's the one that you have. So how do we keep them happy? How do we keep them from not searching somewhere else? Simon, I think you said it perfectly that when they're in town, you got to talk to them, make sure that they know how important they are to you. I know anybody who followed me when I first moved to Costco and went to Costco University, the condo I stayed in. They decorated the whole glass on the condo specifically for, actually, our podcast. They drew a beautiful drawing of our Alex Nanny logo on the window and everybody said I can't believe they did that. Did they do that just for you? They did do this just for me? They do that whenever a homeowner comes into town or any kind of a VIP or a staff member. So, doing things like that, being able to go above and beyond and it's not easy to scale but between now and the next few months, this is probably a good time to be thinking about those types of things, of how you can push the level up a bit.

Speaker 4: 32:53

I totally agree with you and it's an interesting aspect that you guys are raising. Also in terms of generation chip. In Europe we've seen massive generation chips from the baby boomers now inheriting their houses to the next generation, which then became more an Airbnb generation. This was very interesting what we saw, because we had homeowners who were with us at my previous property manager company I worked with. They were with us for 30 years and then they inherited the houses to the youngsters and they're like why do we pay a property manager 30% commission? Obviously, there was a big awakening. Who takes care of the maintenance, the cleaning, the guest complaint and everything? And I'm totally with you, alex. I think this is exactly what we're going to see again with the new homeowners as well.

Speaker 1: 33:47

And.

Speaker 4: 33:47

I believe, to be perfectly honest to you, this is a big chance to say that now. So, let's, from the baby boomers to the next gen, to that gen that you're talking about, I think this is a massive opportunity that people go back to say, hey, just take it off my hand, make the most of it, be competitive and that's. But people need to have an understanding Exactly. The worst thing for me is go to a US supermarket because I stand in front of 4000 cereals. We like that, choices, I love US supermarkets, but when I see 4000 different cereals for breakfast, I struggle. So we need to be very clear in what we do to our homeowners and what do we want to get. And I think this is a massive chance that you raised, alex, that we are now lifting that game and, guys, you're going to take everything off your hand and we're going to take care of this, and this is going to cost you X and everything is fine. And we're still not there. And I think, if we can make this happen and be transparent and honest and get rid of the crap, bad properties do not help our industry. So we need to be selective, exactly, and I think then we have a great basis and this is the current Slowdown. Something of the current marketing environment is a massive opportunity for the professional property management companies.

Speaker 2: 35:23

I agree a thousand percent. I feel like you said a little while ago. We've been, we're a broken record or we just we've been saying this for so long. We saw it coming. But I know like we've been through it before. It's not like it's not surprising, we've been through it before. But the opportunity to come together as a unified voice and message and just really do all the things that we know need to be done, this is, it's sitting right in front of us. We just have to take the opportunity. But on that, since we're getting close to wrapping up this first of the month, simon, where do you see the rest of this year going? We've, obviously we're getting ready to go into show season. We've got Amy Hynote came back, so we're super excited to be able to have Darm this year, but we've got Vera Mayn or National, as a couple of other shows in Europe that are taking place. What do you think the messages going forward for the remainder of the in the back half?

Speaker 4: 36:14

of the year Cautious, being smart, listening out, attending conferences, I think, is something that is is good money well spent. Networking, talk to people and see what else is happening. We've seen so many different messages. We spoke to France property managers domestic market is soft. We speak to American property managers. We see different dynamics across the globe. I think now it's time to network, be together, support each other and share as much as you can and for my own interests, I'm going to moderate Darm, so I'm obviously looking very much.

Speaker 1: 36:49

Are you? We didn't know that, yeah.

Speaker 4: 36:52

Breaking news Very yeah Right at the edge. And the same conversation with Amy, but I'm sure we make ends meet. But yeah, that's the idea that I'm going to be the MC of Darm. I'm being very selective this year. On the other news, I'm not going to be a VEHRM international this year because I'm going to. I'm going to go to Australia instead of the Astra conference, which is another big news that I can just basically announce today because Astra, the Australian Association. I'm going to Sydney and therefore we are international. It's not happening. Unfortunately, our speaking requests have not been accepted. I put one in on global warming and natural crisis, which is very unfortunate, but obviously the RMA is on decision in terms of selecting topics. But now it's time to gather. We have not seen more conferences on the second half of this year. I'm going to go to Cancun. I'm going, I'm moderating Croatia, I'm going to Australia, I'm doing a VRM WS in Barcelona and doing the Darm conference. So this is now it's time to really exchange, talk to peers, exchange what you have seen, exchange your experiences, your numbers and get help and support, because I believe the next 18 to 24 months are definitely going to be not what we have seen in the last 48 months.

Speaker 1: 38:25

Well maybe we'll have you on the show to do the global warming conversation. That'll be the next first of the month episode.

Speaker 4: 38:34

I've been on the board of the largest carbon offset foundation in Switzerland for eight years, so we're supporting like I have a very deep knowledge on carbon offsetting, carbon calculation, carbon footprint calculation. We're supporting projects across the world. We do biogas projects in India, we do projects in Africa, so I'm extremely familiar with this topic. We've already had some conversations on that ourselves and that's definitely something I'm going to push very hard. And there's some initiatives by David Sheridan to put a green conference up, which definitely we at the AGL are going to support as well. Yeah, great.

Speaker 1: 39:15

All great topics today. Simon, this was a wonderful conversation and we're excited to have you back for another first of the month here soon. But until next time, if anybody wants to get in touch with you, what's the best way to reach out?

Speaker 4: 39:29

Absolutely. Thanks, ladies, it was awesome, as always. The best ways to find me at Simon Lehman LEHMN on LinkedIn or Simonlehmanajarcom, where you can find me as a direct email address.

Speaker 1: 39:46

Excellent. We will include that contact information in the show notes. If you've enjoyed this episode, we'd love to hear from you if you can leave us a review on Google or Spotify or Apple, wherever you listen to your podcasts, and you can go to alexandannypodcastcom to get in touch with us, simon. Thank you again and we'll see everybody next time.