1st of the Month Bonus Episode: Sarah Franzen Announces Her New Journey

Speaker 1: 0:02

Welcome to Alex & Annie, the Real Women of Vacation Rentals. I'm Alex and I'm Annie, and we are joined today with Sarah Franzen, who is another Real Women of Vacation Rentals and also the Director of Revenue Management and Analytics for Natural Retreat. Sarah, it's wonderful to see you.

Speaker 2: 0:18

Great to see you too. Thanks for having me Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 0:23

So before we get started, can you give our audience that might not know you just a little bit of background and some of your experience within Vacation Rentals and Revenue Management?

Speaker 2: 0:31

Sure, I came into the space about eight and a half years ago. I came from directly from hotels, so I had done hotel sales and then later hotel revenue management and then heard about this opportunity with National Retreats and Revenue Management. I'm like, oh yeah, that's great, I'm going to do that. That sounds like right up my alley. And eight and a half years later, here I am.

Speaker 3: 0:54

So you've been doing a little bit of everything. I think we all have seen your incredible posts. You like to do networking with people in the industry and I love how you share your thought leader conversations. But we were talking to you recently and you have a really big announcement that you wanted to share on this first of the month episode with us.

Speaker 2: 1:10

I do. I am the Director of Revenue Management and Analytics at Natural Retreats. But today, september 1st, is my actual last day at Natural Retreats.

Speaker 1: 1:21

Wow, hi, oh, my goodness.

Speaker 2: 1:23

I'm starting going out on my own, starting my own thing, as Alex's shirt so beautifully said.

Speaker 1: 1:32

You're not watching on YouTube, make sure to go over. You have to get on YouTube, terry.

Speaker 2: 1:36

Yes, I am going out on my own and the feelings are very bittersweet because I have eight and a half years of history with National Retreats and this is super exciting and it's also a little daunting, but mostly exciting. Yeah, I'm so thankful that you all were willing to let me come on and tell everybody about it here.

Speaker 1: 2:00

We've certainly had our share of new beginnings over the last year, so when we heard about this, we thought we would just love to be part of that with you and to share this news, and it is. It's a big step and we certainly know how that feels to make that decision when you've been with something for a long time and you're emotionally invested in that company and the success that they've had. But there's always with every big change in your life, there's reasons for it, and I think the intent behind what you're building is going to be revolutionary for the industry and something that the industry has really has needed for a long time. Would love to hear a little bit more about it. I'll be going to some more details for us.

Speaker 2: 2:39

Yeah, I'd love to tell you about it. I was a fire to hotels. I was an educator, a performer and educator, but education has always been something that's been really near and dear to me. I think that education is the tool that ultimately lifts everybody, and so, as I was thinking through that, thinking about how I could apply that to short term vacation rentals in our space, revzen is what was the eventual thing to come out of that. So I guess, technically, the new gig is I'm a consultant, but I like to think that it's a little bit different than what most consultants are doing in our space. Not completely Some people definitely are but I really wanted to put the education spin on it. Perhaps not the best business model that some people might think, because I suppose if I'm perfect at my job and everybody comes to me, I can break myself out of a job, but I don't think that will be the case. But I think that our industry needs education. They need folks to mentor, they need people to help provide guidance, and that's what I love to do. My consultation is going to be really one of education. So I want to teach people how to do revenue management and not just providing tactics. And if X then Y, but really walking through the process with people and teaching. I think that's the best path to just about any growth.

Speaker 3: 4:06

I think we talk about it a lot and there is an entirely new group of people that have entered the space within the last couple of years, specifically because of COVID and the growth and indication rentals and short-term rentals. One thing that comes up a lot is that there's just so many people that don't know where to go to get information and they don't know what they don't know. So they're out there flailing about their business and some of them are successful and some of them are frustrated and some of them just don't know. So I think that you're coming at the right time. You're coming as there's a generational shift within the industry and making sure that we can set up the next generation and the next group of people with access and the right headspace and set up for success. It's super exciting to see you do that, but I would love to know from your perspective, because I think you and I have some similarities in our backgrounds. Coming from the hotel space, you come over here and again. A lot of this stuff didn't exist when we first started. Now, especially from hotels, you take that experience, you bring it over to vacation rental, but it was a lot of building like bit by bit, trying to get where we are now. So there's a lot of room to grow, but what was it for you, outside of you being an educator, that you said? What is your aha moment that you said this is what I need to be doing. This is where my space needs to be.

Speaker 2: 5:20

So I think the first thing this might be a long-winded answer, so I apologize in advance but the first thing that I think of when you said that is, yes, when I got to this space, there was very little in terms of revenue management support, whether that's tools or just general knowledge, anything. There really wasn't much. And my company, natural Retreats, hired me anyway. They were like, listen, revenue management is something we think we need to figure that out. So they hired a revenue manager, even though the industry itself didn't really know exactly what that meant. And so in that process, in the hiring process, and then the years that followed, they really gave me a lot of latitude to build what I thought was necessary. And, yes, I failed a lot, but I succeeded a lot. I think I built an amazing team and then, as they came on, they helped me build amazing processes and it's been just an incredible experience. And so it has been a lot of building over time, because there was not a lot when we first got here. There is a lot more now, which is really exciting. So that's the first thing. So I agree, building was a significant part of the last several years. Where we are now is a place where, to your point, there are new people coming into the industry. I don't claim to have all of the answers, I don't claim to know them, but I do know that I've spent a lot of work and time trying to build processes and trying to figure things out. The aha moment came when Emily Patelot, john DeBerle, jordan Locke and I were in Kansas City. I guess it came before that a little bit too, but in Kansas City is where the four of us decided to just really commit to putting together an association for folks in the short term vacation rental space, people who were either interested in revenue management or were revenue managers. But we're interested in providing a space for them, for us, to grow, to learn with one another, because there really hadn't been a whole lot there. I think it's an amazing first step. We're still in the process of getting that off the ground, but it is in the works. If your eyes and ears open for more on the association, but that was the time when I was thinking, as the educator that I am, or that I like to try to be anyway, and with this known gap, this could be a really good opportunity for me to test the waters and just take a leap, leave a faith or something, maybe something like that. But that's definitely what drove my move from an amazing company like Natural Retreats who's been nothing but supportive the entire time, but it had to be something pretty strong to move me from that and it was this real desire to try to elevate, do my part, to elevate education in this space. I love that.

Speaker 1: 8:33

There is still so much opportunity, I feel like, and even though eight years ago, obviously, revenue management was different, it was just at its infancy. Quite honestly, you could say that a lot about some of the marketing and vacation rentals too. I started in this industry 14 years ago, or maybe 15, but 13 years ago with my previous company, condo World, and at that point and a lot of the things we were doing were just like what you just described, that there really wasn't a playbook. We were building it as we went. But then we look back now and we were doing all the right things and I think when you understand the business, you understand the industry. You can adapt some of the processes, the tools that come out, but that inherent understanding of the industry is what makes you an extremely valuable person to the company that you're building or anybody else that you end up working with. I will say one thing that has been interesting that I've seen this year is there are still a lot of companies that are part of the older generation. They've been around for a long time, they're in big resort destinations but they're literally doing no revenue management and I thought that everybody was doing some of it, but there's still a lot out there that they set the rates in November and they don't change them for the next year, and the owners sign off, and that's just where it is, and you start talking to some of them, and I think it's probably an information gap or an education gap, which is that's where I think you're going to come in. Here is you've got to be able to show these people that this is going to be a great thing for homeowners. You have to know how to communicate it properly, but there's probably a lot of money that you're leaving on the table by doing it the old-fashioned way and not utilizing these tools. That is still scary for a lot of companies, though, to change, so I'm just curious what your process would be like if there's anybody that's listening that is in that boat, that they want to get started in things, but all these tools just look a little bit too aggressive in terms of what they've previously done. How would you approach working with those companies to get them to where the industry is now?

Speaker 2: 10:36

Yeah, I think there are very few people out there who are doing absolutely nothing. Seasonality is a thing, right? So most of those people if you're setting rates in November and you're leaving them for a year, you're probably not setting the same rate for the entire year.

Speaker 1: 10:50

Yeah, they're just not changing For seasonality.

Speaker 2: 10:53

So there's an initial theory there that does mirror what revenue management ultimately tries to do my goal when I think about the people that I want to work with. If I could just choose the perfect person to work with, it would be somebody who might be in one of the smaller, more mid-sized companies who just maybe you go to these conferences and you're just flooded by all the vendors and the tools that are out there and you just don't really know. To your earlier points we were there.

Speaker 1: 11:28

I was there years ago.

Speaker 2: 11:30

And I've had a lot of support over the years and one of the things that I think could have been the most useful is just having somebody there to guide. I am not by nature somebody who likes to poop or shame people or say you're doing something wrong. And I think that the other side of that I guess where I'll go with that is that not every company is like natural retreats. Not every company is any other company, and small things can make a big difference. Bigger things can make a big difference, but a lot of it depends on your company's structure, where your company is, who your guests are, and that's why I think a lot of times you go to a conference and you listen to an amazing presentation and you're like, oh, that was really good, I'm going to take something from that. But at the same time, while that can be good, it can also be somewhat detrimental because you don't have the same company that person sitting on stage has. And you go to this and you spend 45, 60 minutes in this thing and you come away with ideas, but then there's just nowhere really to go with it because you don't have the contextual basis for where that person's coming from. And so I think that from an education standpoint that's why I don't like to consider myself like a trainer Like I really want this to be a full education this is going to be. I'll come in and look and see what's going on now. What kinds of changes can we make that are going to be effective for you? But for you, not for everybody else in this space. I think that maybe the long answer to that question is that I don't have a single answer. I think that the answer is very dependent on the person asking, because it's always going to be different. Maybe we focus on a full revenue strategy. Look for you. Maybe we look at distribution. Maybe we look at how your current teams if you have departments are working together, because that's another thing. Like it doesn't exist in a vacuum. You need other people and everybody has different strengths and weaknesses and if you're not addressing those, it's really difficult for the end product to be what you really want it to be. I don't know if that answers your question, but the goal is to really come at this from a pretty holistic standpoint, from assessment all the way through.

Speaker 3: 13:46

So that was actually going to be my next kind of taking us forward. I was thinking in the back about, I think it was like during COVID, after COVID, between COVID was a fog, I think for everybody. You did the hospitality school with Simon and I think it was the school in Switzerland and that was really neat. So like, do you look at what you're doing as something where you're going to create modules where people could go online and get it? Is it going to be just you going to people's businesses? I would imagine you're going to do all of the above and then anything else that comes in, but do you have a framework of how you're going to approach this?

Speaker 2: 14:21

Yeah, so initially we're going out to really see if people are interested in this education component. I think it's interesting, I think it's fascinating, so I hope so. I'll also do revenue management as a service. That's something that is that's, I think, still in need in our space. But I really do initially want to focus on that education component and beyond that, in terms of modules and things like that. I don't know, from a revenue management standpoint, like I'm going to teach you how to be a revenue manager kind of thing I'm not sure that's the best use because I think there's a lot of back and forth communication that needs to happen. That said, in terms of support, supporting tools and things, that's a possibility. I also think that the nonprofit organization that we're putting together hopes to put together some of those kinds of tools for people, and I definitely want to work with them and that's the goal there is to be able to use each entity to the best of their abilities, based on strengths. I do one of the things that is in the works, which is pretty exciting, I think, for me is an owner education component, if that is something that would be. Yeah, that's going to be something that's going to be a little bit more packaged. But yeah, we're shooting for a white label owner education type product that's in the works. But yeah, that's how I see using that type of product, that packaging kind of thing, maybe less for the actual teaching element. Yeah, sure.

Speaker 1: 15:54

So, when it comes to the different tools that are out there and there are plenty, and there are a lot of ones that are really great Are you looking at this holistically, that you would meet with a business and then decide at that point which tools you would suggest for them, or how does that work with the different type of tech that you would bring into the situation?

Speaker 2: 16:13

Yeah, it's going to be highly dependent on the client. I am not. I do not want to be the person that walks in and says you need this tool and this tool, unless they say we're looking to build our tech stack or we're looking to shop. We can do that, but that's going to be a clear need from them saying this is what we need or want. If I've got somebody who says I'm strapped right now, I don't really want to drop thousands of dollars on these things, what can you do? We'll work with that, because that, to me, is the ultimate. You need to work with what you've got, what you can afford, what you are comfortable with, and a lot of times it's not a matter of what you can afford. It's a matter of how quickly do you want to move or how slowly do you want to move, and so I think that's something that I want to keep in front of mind. I have my own biases. Everybody has their own biases, their own preferences, but those are based very internally on how you operate and how you function, and so don't want to put that on somebody else. The plan is the plan. We will be systems agnostic, and that is not. I don't intend to ever say this one is better than this one, because, again, every situation is different. So this one may be better for this one, but it might be better for this one over here.

Speaker 1: 17:30

And I think there's a huge role for what you're trying, what you're going to play there, of just helping people identify what those tools are. Because, like you said, you go to VRMA now and there are so many vendors and we can't wait for Orlando but it's going to be the biggest one ever but there are just so many out there that it becomes overwhelming to choose. I remember I was in the elevator in Vegas a couple years ago and a guy had gotten in and he was clearly very flustered and he said that's it. I'm not going to the vendor hall one more time. Every time I go in there, I get more confused. Just when I think I'm going the right path, I meet another company and I just I can't decide anymore. And I think a lot of people end up feeling that way that they want to have these conversations with other operators and they want to hear what they're doing. But also, to your point, what another operator is doing doesn't necessarily mean that's going to work for their business. So it's really taking the knowledge that you have and what you've seen from a higher level of multiple areas that you've worked in and being able to say, okay, these are the options, these are the best recommendations and these are the examples of companies that have done it this way and just really like putting together. It feels like it's going to be a very customized program of what you're offering, which is great.

Speaker 2: 18:42

Yeah, I don't think that I would want to do it any other way. I'm not sure the whole rev zen thing, the whole idea of there not being like a single way to do things, I think is really speaks very strongly to me. I'm, there are so many different ways to do things and the way that you, the one that you choose, is largely dependent on your ultimate goals and what you're trying to get out of it, and that is different for everybody. Yeah, so I love the idea of walking through, making decisions and weighing all the variables, and that, to me, is that to me, is the growth part when you can verbalize this is what I, this is where I need to go, this is my ultimate goal. Okay, then we can like take a step back and say how do we get there? Hey, this is the ultimate goal, what do you need to do? What are the things that need to fall to the side? If you need to, if you need to reach that particular goal, there are other options. Yeah, the whole idea is to be customized. Because I think that's what an education is. That's what a well-rounded education is. It's not just teaching you two plus two is four. That is part of it. There are so many different ways to look at things, so many different perspectives how you get to two plus two equals four. There are a variety of paths to that. So, yeah, I hope to make it very customized.

Speaker 3: 20:00

It sounds like, too, that you've layered a piece of this in there, that you're also a student, you're gonna be learning, and I think that's what's really cool I know that's something that I've enjoyed over time is that when you can be system agnostic and you can look at all of them and you can recognize the pieces of which one, so that when you start to see a customer that's like they have a need, you're like, oh, they might need that piece and that piece, but it's not necessarily they need the whole piece, they just need pieces of the pieces, whatever. So I think it's good that you're taking the approach that you're not walking in saying here is my methodology and it's the Sarah Franzen way and there's no other way. Like that. I think that's a really good approach, and then recognizing that you can learn along with your students as you're teaching them.

Speaker 2: 20:42

That's funny. When my first life as a musician, I was trained as a classical musician and it was always my philosophy and my strongest belief, even now, that if you are teaching, you need to be open yourself to learning. So never was I teaching music without taking lessons from somebody else. I think that openness makes people better teachers. I think there's just no question in my mind about that. I'm also talking about poor business models or whatever I mentioned earlier. One of the other things that I have every intention of doing is reaching out to people who I guess, are my competitors. If I'm not the right person for somebody, I'm not gonna make trying to fit that round peg and I'm supposed to go the other way around.

Speaker 1: 21:31

That's not.

Speaker 2: 21:32

I really do believe that education is going to fuel this industry. It's going to fuel revenue management. It's going to be groundbreaking. I think it should be. That's how we should view education. Education is not telling you how to do something. It's teaching you thinking skills. It's teaching critical thinking skills. It's teaching you theory and the things that are surrounded. And I'm not gonna be the one all the time that's gonna be the best for every client, but I do believe in helping somebody find who is going to be the best to make them better. I think that makes the entire ecosystem better. That is. That's something, again, that's part of being a student as well. I'm not. I don't know this, so I need to find somebody who can help you know this.

Speaker 1: 22:21

Let's talk a little bit about your decision to make this decision right, or the process that you went through, and I think there's a lot of just different emotions that go into that and you have to weigh pros and cons and talk to a lot of family and then recycle all that in your mind and put your best foot forward. But tell us a little bit about how you actually made the decision, because I think that's interesting to our audience, as they are in jobs and potentially looking to go somewhere else. How did you make that leap to go to where you are now?

Speaker 2: 22:52

Yeah, it wasn't easy. It's pretty emotional still today. It's my last day with my company. That has been amazing to me there have been a lot of tears over the last several months. I gave them about a three month notice, and so I've had a lot of months to cry about things, but the ultimate, I think what brought me to the place where I am today, which is having made that decision, or, I guess, bringing me to the place where I made this decision was things are really scary. There are a lot of really scary things. There are a lot of really exciting things, and when this decision got to the point where it was slightly more exciting than it was scary, that was it. So you had to. I knew I've thought about this for a long time. I had a business when I was young and dumb and I tell people all the time, I was too young and too dumb to know whether I was doing the right thing or the wrong thing. It was testful and it was great. It worked out well. Now I'm definitely not as young and I hope I'm not as dumb, and so you just have to be like okay, I have to have this kind of confidence in myself to know that everything that I've been working on and building and working through that's been for a reason. It's helped me grow into the person that I am today and when, that confidence which fluctuates quite a bit.

Speaker 1: 24:17

Oh yeah, confidence is not static.

Speaker 2: 24:20

But when that confidence got to that tipping point and it was like, okay, I'm just slightly more confident and excited, and it just tilted this way, I was like I just have to do it, I'm going to do it. And it was in Kansas City. We're talking about this association which I'm again really excited about, and we were talking about names for it and whatever. And Jordan Locke hat tip, Jordan Locke throughout the name Revsend and I'd been thinking about this for a long time and I've always been really fascinated by Eastern religion and philosophy and when he threw that out I was like yeah, and so I got home I'd had like plans of things, ideas for things. I got home from Kansas City and I bought the domain and I registered the entity and I was like, okay, I can sit on this for a while and I did, but eventually just sat there and I was thinking, okay, I think I can do it. Don't know, but I think I can. And there were certain things that I would, people that I talked to or thoughts that I had that just got me to that point where I was like you know what, I think I can do it. It could be a massive failure.

Speaker 3: 25:28

But you'll never know. But yeah, but you'll never know until you try, you'll never know.

Speaker 2: 25:31

Yeah, you'll never know when you try. Yeah, it was when the fulcrum moved and it was like I'm not sure if it was the weight or if it was actually shifting the center.

Speaker 3: 25:44

You recognized. You recognized like what Alex and I always talk about. There were signs, there were things that were like they weren't leading you backwards, they weren't leading you sideways. It was that forward momentum and you saw, okay, this is another sign that I'm going in the right direction and right down the right path. And you might get down halfway down the path and realize you need to take a sharp right, but, like, it's fine, you feel comfortable taking that step forward. And that's when you that's when the best things happen is when you're just in that moment of I know I can do it. I don't know how it's going to end up, but I know I can do it.

Speaker 2: 26:16

So you know how, when you, when you like, when you think about things, sometimes you're, you're thinking in a really small bubble, because you're thinking about what if this happens, or what if this?

Speaker 1: 26:24

What was what this person?

Speaker 2: 26:25

say or? And it's very small, and I had no reason to actually believe that it would happen. But I was worried about how my current colleagues would take it and what they would think and what they support me and that was a huge thing. And when it just came out and I made the decision and I said this is what I'm going to do, the support was huge.

Speaker 3: 26:48

So here I am living in this little world. I was self-doubt right, Self-doubt yeah.

Speaker 2: 26:54

And you take the step and you're like, okay, that was done. Yeah, but I've had those experiences too.

Speaker 1: 27:01

And that was, honestly, that was a moment of another confidence creating moment for you right there, of just doing it and then seeing, okay, it all worked out. And then now onto the next one, and that's truly how you build your confidence, and you've done that over these past eight years and probably in some situations that you've recognized and some that you haven't, but it does, it builds to that moment of okay. Now I'm at that tipping point and I'm just ready, very excited for you. I think it's going to be a great thing for the industry and I think you're just going to make amazing waves and make a lot of happy clients, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 27:34

I hope so. Thank you so much. Yeah, that's the hope so you are I was just.

Speaker 3: 27:41

I just know that you have so much respect in this industry for your knowledge and you're just general business acumen, but the way you deliver your message and the way you talk with people and I think that you've never come across off-putting and you've always come across as someone who is very collaborative in nature, and I think that whatever you do with this is going to be amazing, and so we're super excited to be a part of this announcement. And when it gets out there and everybody hears about it, I have a feeling that you're going to be inundated and probably busier than you've ever been in your entire life.

Speaker 2: 28:12

So get ready, Thank, you so much, I really, I just appreciate the encouragement and you guys have been great. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1: 28:20

So when will we see you next? I would imagine you'll be at VMA International in Orlando.

Speaker 2: 28:26

I'll be in Orlando Go right and I'll be at Darm, which is super exciting too, yeah, yeah. So two really cool things coming up. I'm really looking forward to it.

Speaker 1: 28:36

I will definitely see you Women's conference too, or just Darm.

Speaker 2: 28:39

I'm trying.

Speaker 1: 28:40

Okay.

Speaker 2: 28:41

I'm trying to work out some scheduling things.

Speaker 1: 28:43

Yeah, I think there'd be a great it's a great venue for you to share more about this journey and that decision. We're excited to see you very soon then, just in a couple of months. But in the meantime, if anybody wants to get in touch, what's the best way for them to reach you, sarah?

Speaker 2: 28:58

With the new biz comes a new website, so it's revzen R-E-V, like Revenantszencom, and I'm Sarah at revzencom, so y'all can reach me there. I'm on LinkedIn. You can find me there. I'm ready to talk to anybody, even just to talk about the weather. I don't know, I'm from Mainstown and that's what we do when we talk about the weather. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: 29:25

There's a lot to talk about. Oh, my goodness, a lot of good news, yeah, awesome. Thank you, sarah. If anybody wants to reach Annie and I, you can go to alexandannipodcastcom. If you're enjoying the show, we would love to hear from you. Please leave us a review on Apple or Spotify or YouTube, wherever you watch or listen to the show, and until next time, thanks for tuning in everybody.