1st of the Month Bonus Episode - Simon Says: It's Conference Season!

Alex Husner: 0:04

Welcome to Alex and Annie, the real women of vacation rentals. I'm Alex.

Annie Holcombe: 0:08

And I'm Annie.

Alex Husner: 0:09

And we are back today for the October 1 first of the month bonus episode brought to you by AJL Atelier, and we have a surprise today we are going straight into the episode Simon is here. And Simon welcome. It's so good to see you.

Simon Lehmann: 0:24

Thank you, Alex and Annie. Great to see you too, as usual.

Annie Holcombe: 0:28

So it's a Friday morning, Friday afternoon. We're really cutting it close to getting to down to the wire. But we wanted to make sure that we could get all of the nuggets of travel that you experienced this last month, all the shows, all the conferences, everything that you've done. It's a lot to talk about. So we've given you the entire show this time.

Simon Lehmann: 0:48

Oh, wow. That's incredible. Wow, that's that's, you know, I'm a person who doesn't like to talk a lot. This is gonna be very Oh, yeah. Right.

Annie Holcombe: 0:59

This thing from the truth?

Alex Husner: 1:01

That we oh, sorry. Good. Go ahead. I was just gonna say real quick. It is, as Annie said, It is Friday, September 30. We are in the middle of hurricane Ian. And we just wanted to wish our thoughts and prayers to everybody who's been affected by the storm. So our travel, our recording got a little bit messed up yesterday. Travel is just kind of crazy right now. So we are not doing a video episode for this, but wanted to make sure that we caught up with Simon, we're about to go to VRMA next month. And we'll get your thoughts on that here soon. But give us give us the lay of the land of where you've been over the last month because we've been following the pictures and Facebook and it just looks like you've been to some amazing places.

Simon Lehmann: 1:43

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we've been very fortunate the last couple of weeks here in Europe, but I literally just came in last night. And that's why we couldn't record yesterday night because there was an air traffic control strike in France and my flight from Spain to Switzerland had massive delays. Oh my god. We couldn't have made it. So that's part and parcel of traveling. But yeah, I think so this month, we're still in September, we've had the vacation rental World Summit in in Porto, which was an incredible event 538 People from all over the world. Antonio and his wife Christina did yet again an amazing job. It was in a in a separate venue. So there was no hotel attached to it. So everybody was just staying in separate hotels or vacation rentals. But that really didn't matter. We had a lot of nice side events and it was good places to network. And you know, this crowd is sort of used to get together after conferences and not known just get run running home. And I think that's also an important piece of the conference what is happening socially next to the content and everything else. So this year to the difference to Annecy when vacation rental World Summit was first of all more attendance. At a beautiful Porto is an amazing, beautiful city in Portugal. Really picturesque very nice old old city people really enjoyed it. And I think it's it was also quite economical for people to get to wasn't too hard to get to port on it's not that expensive also to rent properties in Porto. Thank God, I had a I had a great rental, together with my team with Katie and Gernot in terms of content. Antonia has made some adjustments. We had these roundtable. So one thing that I really liked in, in in Porto and also in Annesy last year is that the seating is arranged so you can't just sit wherever you want. So that's one thing that I really enjoy, because they have tables by the sizes of PM's, so they can create more value for the sponsors as well to make sure to have them at the right table at the larger PM's as well. So 100 plus 50 plus 20 plus. And then the larger ones did more of the front. They had three video screens because it was a wide room. So they they filmed the center stage and projected it to the sides. Everybody had a good visibility on what was happening on the on the main stage despite the fact it was very large. It was a single track conference. I honestly prefer single track conferences, maximum dual track, and I'll talk about that quickly at the Avantio which I thought was a pretty interesting format as well. So the roundtables work really well on each roundtable is a facilitator that has an envelope with some questions in it to break the ice, get the people introduced to during the roundtable breaks, it's an hour and then everybody can sort of mentioned their main pain points and operational challenges that they're facing. And then, you know, to this lack of AGL consulting again, free consulting for an hour from

Alex Husner: 4:48

Yeah.

Simon Lehmann: 4:51

But no, it's interesting to hear what you know what people are very open they share to help each other. Our table was again super international that people from France, from Portugal from Dubai, large property manager. So it was really interesting that they're sharing their challenges openly. main challenge this year, wherever you go, and any conferences, it's obviously the human capital, it's the labor. It's the, you know, the cleaning and the maintenance people that that are missing, to deliver a good guest experience while we're all facing rising guests, guest expectations. So that's definitely by far our biggest challenge in Europe as well. People dealing with Operation scaling operation, not finding the right people to do so. And hence, and therefore also technology. So technology is obviously still a super hot topic. One thing that I've enjoyed, so that was very good. So they had one session, the morning, one in the afternoon, then they had some some mainstage session with either keynotes and some panels. And then they've added an additional format, which was called Speed dating. And thank god, I've already given feedback to Antonio, so I can publicly mention it. But that that didn't very work well at all. And people didn't like it. So anybody I spoke to just last week and valenta as well, who were important to it didn't work it for,

Alex Husner: 6:14

like we're you're at a table and you just keep moving down the line every couple of minutes.

Simon Lehmann: 6:18

No, actually, it was more, it's all round tables, Alex, like everything was the same. But what was happening is that some of the main sponsors they had they had key speed dating, subscription as well, which meant somebody from a tech company sitting at a table and any pm can then sit at the table and ask as many questions as they like about that tech and then rotate, right. But that didn't work at all. So the vendors were very disappointed. And also the people didn't go to their use of time to go and network and everything else. So that so that really was the price that they pay to have less keynotes. So I think hopefully, next year, they come back with creating more content. And yes, you can make it more engaging, like what we did vrma executive to have the crowd more included. But it's also very tough, you know, when because when the crowd is not engaged, then it's very hard to, you know, to get them, raise their hands, ask questions, so you need to facilitate that very well. But I think, the roundtables they will continue, because they're really good to get to know people, you share your challenges and get really good takeaways. But I think the speed dating session will definitely not come back, they will, they will go back to creating more content on stage.

Alex Husner: 7:39

That's interesting, too, because one of the conferences that I went to earlier this year, G-Nex, in Vegas, that's more of a timeshare vacation ownership conference, they had a speed dating, that it actually rent went really well that they this is something they do at all their events, they've got one really long table and it's you're in front of somebody, and they do it during a happy hour too, which makes a lot of sense. And you're the person you're in front of you have I think two minutes to talk to them. And then you just keep rotating seats down the line. So you end up meeting literally everybody at that event. And then that way afterwards, you know who you want to go and talk to

Simon Lehmann: 8:14

that is super cool. Yeah, that's about right. Yeah,

Annie Holcombe: 8:19

I've done the one that you've talked to delta. And I did that several years ago when I was at Expedia. And into your point, because you're not required to go to everyone, certain vendors get the attention and certain points don't and you get to and it's it's very, it's very, to the point that he had done assigned seating, you'd think that you would make it mandatory to participate at all tables. But I did want to ask a question because I've seen Antonio for several years on LinkedIn and and just kind of watched the people that go to his summit and what what was his reasoning for putting this together? And is it is it far different than the way we do conferences and topics and discussions than we have in the US?

Simon Lehmann: 9:02

Yeah, I mean, he started actually an online event first and then he then it turned into a physical event later on, because he did that all online. It's like, next year, next year, by the way, it's going to be in Barcelona, which which we're super excited about because first of all, we can have good parties at the ajl office, which is awesome.

Annie Holcombe: 9:21

Thats the one we are going to

Alex Husner: 9:25

have one overseas, we're gonna go to AJL

Simon Lehmann: 9:28

you have good reason. So it's the 10 year VR ws in Barcelona, which is awesome are super excited a lot of tech companies there a lot of things to do. So yeah, first online, and then it started physical, very small. It was more a boutique event. And then it you know, and more sort of small PMS 50 units, more luxury rental companies as well. Very Italian focused, and now it's become very international that people from the United States there's a good mix of different kinds of attendants. I think one thing you need to be very careful about and I gave him that as a feedback as well is that now it's getting to a size where it can start slipping, if you if you know what I mean. So you know, it's, it loses his touch, it loses the value of networking and everything else and if it goes above a certain size, then it can sort of lose this, the cutting edge, the attractiveness of an open event, if it gets too large, then people will not go anymore. And and vendors will not go either. One of the downsides he had this year that the venue had, he had, he was really limited in having good enough exhibition space. So some of the key sponsors, actually eight of them in total, or even more, had their booths within the exhibition hall, everything that main hall. So that meant in the breaks, everybody left and they didn't get any track. Yeah. So that was not well received. And I think

Alex Husner: 10:54

I feel like every conference, it just gets worse and worse, I feel so bad for the vendors that I think Chicago was probably the hardest for VRMA, where the vendors were they were so far off Oh my God, everything else was we couldn't even really even find

Annie Holcombe: 11:09

and find. And honestly, you know, from a Lexicon standpoint, that's what we looked at, at the beginning of the year, like the shows, where we knew we were going to get the most traffic and where it was the biggest bang for our buck. And, and it's the smaller ones that you do pay a little more for comparative to like these larger ones you pay, you pay a higher price just because of the I guess the exclusivity or the number. But it's some of these bigger, we don't we don't do VRMA anymore, because it's just so big, and you get so much more out of it, being able to sit at a table at a you know, one of the sessions or at a meal. And I think that there's we have to the industry is so big, and there's so much content that needs to be delivered, we have to find a good balance in that, you know, we have to have vendors to support the shows to make the shows work. But we also have to have the participation from the PMs and everybody to make the vendors want to go and but finding the balance where you can actually have those two connect and people don't feel pushed aside or not getting their worth. I mean, it's a it's a really tough balance. I think for anybody that that puts a show on I don't know that there's a perfect scenario. But that's definitely something that has to be worked on. Yeah, I

Simon Lehmann: 12:16

think one thing that Antonia was very careful about is not he's having limited sponsors and exhibition spaces, which actually results in having a great variety of different type of vendors, because it's limited. And then you've got you don't have like 10, PMS and all the channels. And when it's sold out, it's sold out. So it was really cool that there was you know, there's only a few a handful of PMS is only a handful of revenue managers and maybe one general manager, the rest of us guests experience technology, like do you know, revenue management was there, obviously verbo and booking so it was a good diversity and not not the same vendor. So that's more value for for the people who attend as well. So but look, that is the hardest thing in any conference. And I think, you know, now going forward, you know, a one week later I was in Valencia was moderating the partnership event of of Ontario for 2022 in Valencia at an incredible venue in a hotel. And they had like two palaces opposite each other in the in the hotel amazing. It looks beautiful. Yeah, it was absolutely incredible. And one thing so they had two stages that a main stage and an auditorium with about 180 seats. And then they had a fireside plays in this in the in the other palace where there was a seating probably about the same. total attendance was 450 27 nationalities coming from all over the world. And I heard people saying and I'm not going to call names here, but also international people and people who've been to many vendor conferences in the US, especially the PMSs who put very large vendor conferences on they said this was hands down the best vendor conference they have ever attended to

Alex Husner: 14:07

really learn from that then. Yeah, absolutely.

Simon Lehmann: 14:12

In terms of quality in terms of execution. You know, they had incredible speakers that people from booking Airbnb, their people from VRBO, they had really really good speakers very good technology. But they had a lot of I mean, the the tracks were really good because some tracks that attracted a lot of people. Like on the main stage, you could watch them in the fireside, they live telecast of that. So because it was limited seating at 180 seats, they had let live telecasting into the other venue that that they could also watch that through video, which was amazing. So they were really thoughtful about that and You had so you had dual tracks and certain things and uncertain things. It was a single track but with with broadcasting into a different stage, so that people really enjoyed that. The food as you can appreciate in Spain is always good Cesar, the head of sales at Avanti did an incredible job. And for me the absolute highlight was on the second day we had a keynote speaker with Tony Nadal. Tony Nadal is probably one of the most famous tennis coaches in the world. He was he's Rafa Nadal uncle for many, many, many, many years not anymore. And he's considered to be one of the best coach. Now the latest US Open winner, the 19 year old comes from the same academy of Tony Nadal as well. So he's producing world stars. And his keynote was absolutely incredible. And actually, I've taken about 25 different quotes, which are then summarized in my closing speech, and I'm happy to share them with you as well. It was for me very inspiring. I'm, I'm a tennis player myself, and, and I really enjoyed to have a person like that it just takes you out of your hamster wheel and what I'm gonna save it that it doesn't matter if it was Tony, not all or somebody else, but it just takes you out of your day to day, you know, vacation rental group. You know, you go out in the evening, go for dinner with everybody's you keep talking about vacation rental. Yeah. 24/7. And then, on this, actually what was very smart. On the second day at 9am. He was on so you can imagine? Yeah, like we came home, like at two o'clock in the morning. But

Alex Husner: 16:42

yeah, you wanted to be there for our conferences are missing. And I really think that that's a huge opportunity that we should be bringing in a big keynote, because that also one if it's very well known, and it draws in more of a crowd. So I think one from a marketing perspective to get attendance at conferences, that's always a great idea. But to your point, you know, we're talking about vacation rentals all day long. 24/7. I mean, literally, you need a little bit of a break. And like there's just it sparks good conversation. And you should leave conferences, feeling inspired. And I think sometimes it's so mired down in the issues that we're all facing that it's good to have some outside knowledge and inspiration.

Annie Holcombe: 17:26

I have a question. Yeah. Go ahead. Sorry. No, I was I wanted to know, you know, so we're getting ready to go to VRMA in a few weeks, and you the topics that are like hot, and, you know, front and center in the US Or is it the same in Europe is like advocacy, you know, the finding of regulations, the the enormous growth of vacation rentals? Is it wasn't workforce, or they still have it? Yeah. Yeah. Is it the same thing there? Or is it very isolated by country? Like, it's so it's so hard for me to wrap my head around the variations between different countries there? So it's interesting.

Simon Lehmann: 18:00

Oh, I mean, that's super valuable point. And yeah, let's touch on the topics a little bit. So I think so there's several, and it's totally identical, right? It's totally identical. One thing that I really enjoy, and they were pushing very hard, and all the conference, we're pushing very hard. And that's also in common, and in Valencia, is that these were sustainable conferences. So based on sustainability, which means, you know, no more plastic bottles for the people to grab. It's all like anything that they supply. So they have classes, no more cops, it's really, it's, they put their heads around and say we want to have sustainable conferences, we don't want people to come with masses of paperwork, and whatever. So for example, Us at AJL, we just had QR codes on our table, and you could take a photo and then you can download the PDF of our of our company presentation or whatever. So you could say the sustainability issue is a very big issue. And it's now really driving into into vacation rental as well. What can we do as PMS to reduce carbon footprint? And how can we become better at reducing energy consumption for vacation rental and get owners? You know better at that, you know, we're facing a massive energy crisis in Europe, with the war in the Ukraine and Russia, that three comes sort of in a double whammy. One is due to climate change. And the other one is the reduction of energy as well, at the same time, which we need to we need to we need to do so that was a big topic, and it's going to be a big topic going forward. Then the other ones are very universal in terms of, you know, human capital, the challenges of Operation execution, dealing with higher guest expectation. What does that mean for your technology you apply to deliver better guest experience at lower cost. So that's definitely a massive issue. Profitability is obviously a huge one. In our people are struggling to raise capital. So anybody that is not profitable right now is really suffering to raise more capital for their businesses, VCs are very careful in providing more capital. So it's very, very challenging to raise more capital. So I did a keynote on m&a and about valuation of businesses. And and there's a lot of interest in that people want to figure out what to do with their businesses should they sell? What are what are the opportunities? What are the valuations? So that's another big one. And then one that is very consistent for the last couple of years is obviously, you know, revenue management and the whole use of data to be smarter, making smarter decisions, making smarter decisions strategically. So Beyond that good presentation Transparent. Was there Key Data Dashboard came to Europe? Yeah, I saw that. Yeah. Which, which is quite interesting. You know, they see that is a big market. And they definitely want to come here as well. So I think the other topics, Operation related financial, they're very universal, and not something totally different. Regulatory maybe as a last point on these topics, we definitely do see also in Europe regulation to be one of the single biggest threats to our industry overall, right. But it really varies by country, by state by city, everything else. So it's, it's, it's being understood that this is a big risk, also for investors. But it's not isolated across Europe, because each country handles it in a different fashion. So it's, it's understood, it's a risk, but it's being dealt of more on a local level,

Alex Husner: 21:40

would you say? The regulatory issues are worse over there right now? Or what is the climate? Is it about the same as what we're facing stateside? Or how would you compare?

Simon Lehmann: 21:51

Yeah, it's a good question, Alex, it's very hard for me to say, because there are so different, and we're seeing different models, like we're seeing markets are totally not regulated, like, you know, in the leisure markets, the regulation is not very challenging at all, like in Italy, and, and also Spain. I mean, they're, you know, they're literally not regulated, maybe there is a couple of implications you need to like requirements you need to meet. But then you have highly regulated markets like Barcelona, which have been regulated for many, many, many years, which is, it's a cap, you need to have your property license, there's 9500 licenses in the city. But that's actually not bad, because the market very competitive. There is, you know, many property managers in that market 257 In total, and nobody complains about the regulation in that market, because it's capped. everybody deals with it. It's the way it is. Right. So I think you can't compare it. Because also things are are moving. And then, you know, infringement is the last one to think about this. There's markets that are actually regulated, but there's no infringement. There's no, there's no penalties. So people continue to do whatever they want, which makes it harder for you to sell a business in a in a in a regulated market. Follow the regulations, because then you you run into risks. Right.

Alex Husner: 23:15

Yeah. What about from an acquisition standpoint? Are you seeing a pretty good amount of companies over there that are wanting to not necessarily acquire but that are in the in the sell mode right now?

Simon Lehmann: 23:28

Yeah, I think both I think I think on the sell side, definitely there is there is appetite there. We don't have his what the US had recently with like two large companies sort of dominating the acquisition scene while other private equity is want to get into it in Europe. It's it's more company to company and not like one large one gobbling up everybody else. I mean, yes, sure. Or your or your has been quite as being quite acquisitive aways has been quite acquisitive, as well, as well. But it's actually more between countries and larger property managers more cash want to buy smaller ones. And yeah, there is a lot of movement in the market, besides technology, also in the property management side. But you know, because the market is so big and so fragmented, you you don't hear as much as you do when a when a transaction happens. Or, you know, is that immediately in Europe? You don't hear about it?

Alex Husner: 24:26

What are your predictions for as we enter 2022 and going into 2023, just on our side of the world or on yours? But, you know, we saw so many acquisitions earlier this year, middle part of the year, what do you think's gonna happen and with the recession? I mean, is that how does that factor into the climate for people wanting to sell their businesses right now? Yeah, it's

Annie Holcombe: 24:48

Simon Like so when you're answering that. Give your opinion on Awaze because I saw that they were looking to possibly sell

Simon Lehmann: 24:59

Yeah, you No, I can't make too many comments on that, but it's the process.

Alex Husner: 25:08

While you're answering that question, the

Simon Lehmann: 25:10

there has been some announcement. And yes, it answer is, you know, with the Sky News yesterday saying that Awaze is that market, they have appointed bankers. You know, that's, we're hearing the same, but we haven't seen anything yet. So let's, let's wait and see. I mean, it's only natural on that one, you know, an average lifetime value of a portfolio company with a private equities five years. So 2018 Platinum bought it, it's now 22. So it's no surprise that eventually, they got it to a level where they you know, the needs to roll over? My take is it's definitely going to be a private equity again, and not an industry buyer to buy this asset. And and we shall see, but we're definitely ready to have a bite to that for sure. So I think, you know, I'm cautious. Actually, Alex, and also on the outlook I, we have so many different opinions, people are very bullish. I think, again, it depends on certain markets. You know, in the UK, we're seeing energy prices, tripling, where people want to do long term rentals, again, because they don't want to pay the utility costs, because energy costs have become so high. So it really depends on which markets, this can fuel two things. This can fuel a very quick exit and say, hey, now it's good time. Let's get rid of the business. And others will say, hey, let's manage the next crisis and get this a little bit bigger. Because the question is, you know, a recession or an economical downturn is actually nothing bad per se, for the vacation rental industry, right? Because when interest rates come up, you might have more supply coming to your market, which actually are properties that owners can't afford anymore. So they need incomes that are rented out, right, because interest rates going up, their financing becomes more expensive. And, you know, it. Economical downturns have always fueled the vacation rental industry. And and it's always come out stronger afterwards, we've seen that with COVID, we've seen that with SARS, we've seen that with 9/11. We've seen that with the financial crisis in 2008. Interest rates gone up, a lot of owners couldn't keep their houses anymore, so they started to rent it out which they didn't rent before. So more supplies coming in. Because one thing that is still continued to be very strong is the demand. So I had Pierre on stage and a fireside in Valencia, and he's quite bullish, he says, you know, our data shows that demand is still very strong for vacation rental. And it will really depend how much supply is going to be there is it going to grow? And people will then say, Look, I just continue through that store and grow my business a bit bigger and sell it later. So I think you have two different camps, some might want to get rid of it now. And others will just go through and get bigger.

Annie Holcombe: 27:55

Like going on. On on that desti. So guest he's making and they've they've purchased a lot. And so I think that, to me is signals that they're they're really putting, you know, putting their footing in the US. And I think that they've been here, I was talking to another PMS provider yesterday, who actually said that they had lost some some accounts to them because they've got some really good good, cool technology and some embedded apps that are that are pretty neat. So what are your thoughts on again, the consolidation that's continuing within the verticals? And you know, do you see more of that happening with the technology space where these technology providers are going to buy up the complementary systems like yeah, channel manager or you know, a property tech type, you know, guests Yes, services type things.

Simon Lehmann: 28:51

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, consolidation is happening on the tech front without a doubt and we always predicted that already. 2019 It was, you know, it would the stars were there to clearly indicate that consolidation needs to happen too much capital in the market and not not enough profitability, limited addressable market as well. The monsters will pull through acquire others, while we still see more verticals in tech, PMS are starting to consolidate and then also the other verticals will start consolidating. I think we'll get back to that in a second vacation rental. I clearly made that statement in literally every conference I do believe this industry will remain hyper fragmented and hyper local and will be very difficult to roll up maybe franchises have some opportunities to do that. But you know, as long as the action is happening in destination, it's going to remain hyper local. The main asset is relationship to homeowners that's hard to scale. We've seen that with VACASA others we've really struggled to to create meaningful unit economics and growing a serious large business. You know, churn rate will fuel new property managers, and I think we will see, I would argue that at the moment we see more PMS starting than the ones are closing actually. Yeah, there we go. So the fragmentation is continuing, we're tracking 140,000 PMs in the world. So on the tech side, yeah, Guesty is very interesting. And $170 million Series F is a lot of cash. And, and they're, they want to do a market grab, you know, I mean, now they bought Kigo, which actually was a surprise to me, because, to be honest, I don't know how much left was of Kigo go there. I know, they lost a lot of customers in Europe. And now they did a they did a regional play with with Australia as well, which with a HiRUM, they, they bought an Australian player to really get into that Aussie market, right. And, and probably they will buy something in Latin America, if there is something out there that will get them into Latin American market as well, to spend that capital. And, um, there's, without a doubt going to be assets in the US for sale within the next six months, if not already a market that they will look at very carefully at the end of the day. It really depends, you know, who are the investors and the owners behind these businesses? You know, I mean, some have invested a lot of venture capital money, and VCs are not going to sell for cheap, right. So and, and, and, and guest he has been always extremely disciplined in terms of their valuation and the way they look at the market. And they're not, they don't just throw money out of the window. They want to make smart and good acquisitions from a price standpoint. So it really depends what kind of businesses they can grab, at what price so they will look more at businesses that probably are more privately owned, than they are super emboldened by investors, which probably will drive price expectations, potentially down. But others that are out there in the market are looking to exit they their value expectations are absolutely enormous. And, you know, Blue Star buying TRACK at a multiple what it's been talked about. That's a massive number. And I would think that I guess the as a strategic buyer is not prepared to send the same the same type of valuations. So it's actually going to remain very, very interesting. But the tech consolidation will definitely continue in the next year or two, and we will see less and less PMS players in the space.

Alex Husner: 32:24

Yeah, I think so. I remember we were in San Antonio, last year, you saying to us in the vendor Hall, look around right now. And a year, two years, a lot of these vendors, you know, especially PMS is will not be here. When we come back a lot, a lot of consolidation going on. And obviously we've talked about this on our previous Simon Says it's it's nothing new, as you said, it's nothing. Consolidation happens in all in all industries, but for all of us that are in this day in and day out. Feel like there's always just something new hitting the news. That is shocking. Yeah, so VRMA is right around the corner. We are heading there. Let's say that is October 22nd to the 26th. We'll be out there. And we are sure you know this time we're hosting the red carpet for the Homerunners premiere on Sunday night. Hopefully we will see you there.

Simon Lehmann: 33:14

I've already accepted the invitation from Matt, of course I am. Okay, well,

Annie Holcombe: 33:18

we will interview make sure you wear your bowtie.

Alex Husner: 33:20

Yes, yes.

Simon Lehmann: 33:23

I have to go and search my bowtie. Trust me.

Annie Holcombe: 33:25

There you go. We can find you one in Vegas with sparkles and stuff.

Alex Husner: 33:28

Yeah, yeah. What are you looking forward to the most at VRMA. Two, that was a closing

Simon Lehmann: 33:36

that I'm not going to speak this is awesome. Oh my gosh, I

Annie Holcombe: 33:40

get to have fun for yourself.

Simon Lehmann: 33:42

I'm gonna get to have fun. And I'm not speaking this year, which is definitely an ovum. But instead I'm taking my time to do more networking, you know, catching up at some really good meetings with with people and and see what's happening in the market, we're actually going to announce our new partner in the US who's coming to work with AGL as well, which is awesome. So we will be very busy having a lot of conversations at the conference. And, and I'm really want to work the floor. And I'm on one panel, which is about guest experience, which I'm looking forward to. I've been asked to participate. guest experience is a hot topic, as we alluded to earlier. But yeah, I'm really looking forward to spend the different VRMA Probably less stress, and maybe with a little bit more sleep than usual.

Alex Husner: 34:33

Yeah. Great. Well, thank you for joining. Hey, Simon. It's great. Great to catch up and excited to see you in person and just a couple of weeks here and any closing thoughts or anything else for our audience you want to share?

Simon Lehmann: 34:49

Yeah, absolutely. First of all, thank you both Alex and Annie. We are also very thoughtful of anybody being affected by the hurricane and I hope they're better staying safe from our side here in Switzerland, where you have a hurricane, we have a war. So you know, I don't know what is better. And and I hope that the world will come to more peace very, very soon. And I think what helps us at these conferences as well we share our we share our traditions, we share our cultures, and we should be respectful of each other and try to take some of that home and, and be me be more thoughtful. There's more than just vacation rental. There's a world to take care of. And I think we need to be very mindful of that. Absolutely.

Alex Husner: 35:32

Yeah. Great. Well, thank you everybody, for tuning in for this episode of Simon Says, brought to you by AJL Atelier. If anybody wants to contact me tonight, you can go to AlexandAnniepodcast.com. And Simon, what's the best way for anybody to contact you?

Simon Lehmann: 35:49

Absolutely. So the best way to contact me is on Simon. Lehmann that's L-E-H-M-A-NN@AJLAtelier.com or you find me on LinkedIn.

Alex Husner: 36:01

We need to get that at Atelier. Sorry.

Annie Holcombe: 36:05

We can't do it as cool.

Alex Husner: 36:07

Yeah. Awesome. Thank you for tuning in everybody. We will see you at VRMA hopefully and talk to you next time.