The Inside Scoop Behind the VRMA, with Executive Director Kimberly Miles

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Welcome to Alex and Annie, the real women of vacation rentals. With more than 35 years combined industry experience, alex Hussner and Annie Holcomb have teamed up to connect the dots between inspiration and opportunity, seeking to find the one story, idea, strategy or decision that led to their guest's big aha moment. Join them as they highlight the real stories behind the people and brands that have built vacation rentals into the $100 billion industry. It is today and now it's time to get real and have some fun with your hosts, alex and Annie.

Speaker 1: 1:21

Welcome to Alex and Annie, the real women of vacation rentals. I'm Alex and I'm Annie, and we are joined today with Kimberly Miles, who is the executive director of VRMA, the Vacation Rental Managers Association. Kimberly, welcome to the show.

Speaker 4: 1:35

Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate the ask and happy beer.

Speaker 2: 1:40

Yeah, we're so excited to finally have you on and we talked about it for a long time and I think it's great to let people learn about you because you're such a great advocate for our industry. But it's just such a fun part of the association I don't think everybody gets to interact with, so why don't you tell us a little bit about your background and how you came to be the executive director? Sure, absolutely.

Speaker 4: 1:59

It has been a very quick two years for me. I joined VRMA in July of 2021. I still feel like I'm very new, as there's so much to learn about this industry, this segment of the lodging industry, alex being one of our board members. They don't let me say I'm new anymore, since it's been two years, but I still feel that way. But I did come to the ARMA with a long standing background in the lodging industry. I spent 19 years at American Hotel and Lodging Association managing left there as their senior VP of operations, managing business development, membership services, membership, sales, colleges and events, education in some other areas of operations there. This was a tremendous opportunity that presented itself to be able to lead a great team of professionals and take a leadership role here at the Keshe Rental Management Association and have an exciting opportunity to lead a very dynamic and growing industry of this segment of lodging. So it was a great opportunity and thrilled to be here and thrilled to still be learning?

Speaker 1: 3:03

Yeah, absolutely. It's not an easy job, as I'm sure that you've realized. You've got a lot of different bosses that are in the mix of this, and I think it would be helpful for our listeners to understand a little bit more. We want to know more about VRMA. What are some of the things that the association does that people might not necessarily know? But also, from the leadership perspective, the board of directors can you explain, and I've so enjoyed my time on the board so far can you explain what the role of the board is and the executive board? For those who aren't sure, yeah, absolutely so.

Speaker 4: 3:34

I am on the staff. I lead a dynamic, passionate staff team of 24 staff members that work in all aspects of association management. So they represent all of the different things that VRMA does, whether that's membership and operations, marketing, education, it, business development, sales, exhibits all of those things that VRMA does. So we are located in, based in Washington DC, but we also have half of our staff team that works out of our Chicago office, and so that's our staffing structure. That is, alex said we have 13, again, very passionate and experienced leaders on our board of directors, that three of which are represent the supplier community and the remaining 10 represent the issue, my own management side of the industry and, part of that, 13 board members. We have five executive committee members and those are our officers of our president, immediate past president, incoming president, secretary and treasurer. So that is our governance model. Our board and executive committee really develop and drive our strategic plan, and I know that we'll dig into that a little bit, but they are the ones that set our strategic course for the association and what we want to accomplish and what are our priorities. And, of course, the staff team are the ones that execute that vision and put that board into the marketplace, whether that be delivery mechanisms of our conferences or our magazine or any other way that all the things that products and services that they are may offers. That's the difference between our staff teams role versus our board of directors and executive committee.

Speaker 2: 5:16

So would you say that some days it's like hurting cats to get everybody to the table?

Speaker 4: 5:21

It's always hurting cats. I think that I will say, coming from another association and coming from another association that truly represented hospitality, when I was looking for my next move, I was looking to stay in hospitality. I think it is such a unique industry and they are the members of the RNA, just like the members of my prior association are living and breathing hospitality every day. They are serving their guests every day and, while it is hurting cats at times, it also is really representing a pretty unique segment and a pretty special segment of the economy and that they are living and breathing hospitality. I will say that it was something that I sought for in my next opportunity and I think that our board lives and breathes that. But our staff very much appreciates that in working for a segment of the industry that really represents hospitality, is very appreciative of guest service, customer service and all the things that go into that. So I think it's pretty special and I think that you have to. People say, once you get it in your blood, it's for a delieve locality and I think that's really true.

Speaker 1: 6:31

Yeah, I agree with that. And then, looking back on VRMA and the association, it's been how many years has VRMA been in existence? Sixth, it's since 1985. Okay, yes, same year I was born and really as interesting to it was 85.

Speaker 4: 6:44

See, you've been since the start. Yeah, exactly, I was born for this. You're born into it.

Speaker 1: 6:48

Yeah, my previous role when I was at Condor World. That business was also started in 1985. And there was a lot of businesses that started in 1985, especially in some of these, like key historic or not historic, but traditional vacation rental destinations that those mid 80s years were pretty formative years for the industry. And I'm curious though you love hospitality but at the same time, when you came into the organization I've seen it since I first got involved, which is going back to probably 2009 or 10. But the challenges we've tackled over the years have changed significantly, as they should. But did you, as you moved into this role, did you take time to look back on where the association has been? Or did you feel like you just hit the ground running with where we're at? Or what was that process like to learn that history? If you did take that path?

Speaker 4: 7:37

Yeah, that's a really good question, elitz. I think that when I started in July of 2021, vra was going into. They committed to hold their first in-person meeting since the pandemic in October of 2021. So when I got here, all associations most associations, not all were struggling like other businesses from the pandemic and so forth, including the RMA, and our president of the board at the time made it very clear what my priorities were. Coming on, it was like you have to focus on this international conference in San Antonio of 2021. We need to come out strong. We need to make sure that this is successful. We need this to be a success for the association. So think that first six months, alex, it was like, so focused on getting to know the board and getting to know what I needed to do to achieve that goal of getting up to speed, on making sure that first footprints was successful and it was it had. I know that our members are promoters of travel and tourism, as they are a segment of travel and tourism, so they felt it important to support that initiative and be in-person in San Antonio. So to hold a meeting right out of the gate of 1700 in-person attendees during a pandemic, with masks on, and all of that was pretty impressive. So we think that right out of the gate, alex, it was like I really had a very tactical goal and very important for the association to make sure that we rebounded. And so then it was like after we got through that hurdle, I got to then take the time to learn more about the members and the segments and all of that and dig a little bit deeper after that first four or five months to be able to make sure that VRM was successful in an immediate goal. So I think that it was a little bit twofold. It was like let's dive in and make sure that conferences and events were an important part of my entire career in managing events, and so I think that it was diving in and making sure that those things were met while really digging deep in the industry. I say that this is just a different swim lane of lodging. You have the hotel segment, you've got the rental segment, and it was learning the ins and outs of what our challenges were, both on advocacy front and other fronts, and what we needed to do to rebound from the pandemic and just like any other travel and tourism association. So I think it both had a short and a longer term goal for me on what I was going to usually can come into this chief staff executive role and take your first year and learn and look at that, but it was like I dove right in and then had to take a step farther back and then lift up. And immediately going into 2022 was when we said, okay, let's take a step back, let's lift up. We need to develop our three-year strategic plan. We now need to say what are our longer range planning versus just what's right in front of us. And so I was able to take the time and work with the board to develop those longer range goals and I think that if we have a lot of businesses and events or a sweet spot at the RNAs, they will always be something that brings our members together and our members find as a very important part of their value proposition. But I think that it was important to lift up and say how's our industry changed? How are we going to look at things differently? Have our priorities changed, have our goals changed? And let's make sure that we enact a longer range plan so that we can follow that plan further. So I think it was both longer term and short term, but immediately it was like dive in, learn the industry.

Speaker 2: 11:05

Let's go and make sure that our members line up valuable, I can only imagine. So you hit the ground running. You've been on the treadmill for the last two years, proud of not on a comfortable speed, I would imagine at most times, but fast forward where we are today. One of the big topics Alex and I talked to a lot of people and I actually had a conversation with Heather Bayer yesterday, as a matter of fact and we were talking about how do we bring more people into the fold, and so it's something that Alex and I are pretty passionate about is we extending our reach within the industry. There's kind of two schools of thought, that there's like an STR and there's a VR kind of part of the business, and we really feel like we're the same business. We're just might maybe operating in some different areas, like urban versus traditional vacation rentals, but as a whole, we're all doing the same thing and it all goes back to what you said. It's the root of that hospitality. I always say it's hospitality, jean. We all are servicing a guest and trying to help facilitate family dreams and memories and experiences. But how do you see it from your perspective is how do we grow our as an association, our reach, our membership, our availability of education for members and growing those members to be able to access the education.

Speaker 4: 12:14

Yeah, I think that it's important to embrace that change. I think that VRMA needs to embrace the change that they've had to absorb up until now and they certainly have to embrace change going forward as our industry changes, as that phase of whether you're in an urban location or traditional vacation type destinations, whether you're an individual host, whether you're a super large company and I think that this board has adapted very well and is looking at future plans to be able to make sure that there is a place for everyone under the tent. There has to be a place for everyone under the tent. Now you can't be all things to all people at the same time, but if there's a place for everyone under the tent, and then you look at segmenting that and you look at what is the value proposition for each one of those member types and creating a value proposition for each one of those member types and doing education for that, and what are the products and services for those particular member types. I think that's what we have to do as an organization to grow, to recognize and embrace that change, that the industry is changing, technology is changing. We're sitting here not going to be the same organization or industry three years from now, five years from now? We certainly have. We're not the same industry or organization three years ago and there's mergers and consolidation, and technology and outside influencers and competition and all of that. So we think that you have to be willing to embrace that. You have to know where what you do best, what's your sweet spot, embrace new opportunities and embrace the change of the industry to be able to keep up. But I think that recognizing that there is a place for everyone under the tent and I think, recognizing that we are a growing and changing industry and you, in order to not be stagnant, you have to be willing to grow and change with that.

Speaker 1: 14:08

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and I think we're always surprised when we hear from some people that are more on the SDR side that they have not heard of VRMA or they don't know about these conferences. Knowing that and I think that's something that we've all talked about on our team is how do we bridge that gap? Like? I know that in San Antonio there was a big push to bring a lot of those people on that side that had less than was it less than 10 units or five? Less than five yeah, less than five, and, honestly, when you look at the breakdown of our membership, it's definitely heavy in that group of people. So we've got a good amount of members that are smaller like that, but there's still so many more out there. So what do you think? How do we go after them and how do we get our message in front of them?

Speaker 4: 14:54

I think that the board had made a strategic decision to try to make sure that there was a place under the tent for the less than five. If you own, they used to have a category that was called a startup category, and if you owned less than five units or managed less than five units, the assumption at that point in time was that you wanted to grow, that you had three and that you were gonna grow out of that and have five to 10 in the future years. But the reality is that some people own less than five and they will always own less than five, and so there's no reason that we would need to say, okay, we could only be a member for a year, that you have to grow to be a part of the RMA. So I think that, but I think that our sweet spot is a little bit larger. But I think that, again, you have to say what's important to that segment. If you look at the less than five, they might not be the ones that are traveling to the international conference. They might maybe not the majority. Maybe they want best practices and cleaning standards and access to our webinars and access to online education, because this might not be their primary business, and so they might not be traveling to a conference Some may not but then saying, okay, what's the larger group and what's important to them and what do they need? And then you have to look at the demographics of whether people are just starting all through the industry or whether they're in an executive track, and so I think that as we design our educational offerings and our products and services, you have to look at all those demographics, whether it be science, whether it be experience level in the industry and partnering with the right people to be able to provide that education, best practices, toolkits, services, networking opportunities, connection opportunities to make sure that there is a value proposition for all. So I think that it's a lot of work, that you have to look at all of that, and I think that the associations that are successful have seen on a member of ASAE and American Society of Association, execs so I'm attending their annual meeting next week but you hear so many associations that are having to dig deeper and you just can't rely on what you've relied on in the past and you have to segment and you have to prioritize and you have to make sure that the value proposition is there for all, because it's very rare. If you can just have it all be one, here's your suite of services and that. So I think that in order to grow Alex, to answer your question is that we have to really look at that and we're doing market research right now and to add to our value proposition pillar of our strategic plan to make sure that we can maintain relevancy and we can grow and we can certainly have better market penetration and, as you said, have more people know who VRMA is and recognize that there's a place for us within their hospitality ecosystem and that we can not only grow the association but be able to provide more products and services out there to the general industry.

Speaker 1: 17:57

Yeah, and I think that goes too to. We've talked about partnering with other organizations like Destinations International and even some of these other events that are within the space that maybe aren't VRMA events, but places where we should just always have a seat at the table or at least in the audience, if not at the table, to just have our name out there. But I think that's the collaboration, is a big part of it, right? No?

Speaker 4: 18:19

one can be this alone right. You know we think that we did make a push last year, specifically Destinations International. We joined them as an organization. I go way back with their CEO and he came to me and was like Kimberly it is a constant discussion now about short-term rentals and the journals in our destinations. We've got to figure out a way to partner together and so forth. So that's been a great partnership. I think that in getting our name out there a little bit more since the pandemic two, competition, other of industry events that were never in our space, while there's room for everyone and we want to make sure that our conferences and our content and our value proposition is still strong to be able to compete with that. And I also think that when you think about other partnerships, we joined a couple different organizations like Lieutenant Governors, both on the Republican and the Democratic side, to make sure that we could reach legislators that needed to know about our side of what we're bringing to certain local economies and so forth. So there's partnerships all across the board and Alex knows it's a big discussion at the board level right now of how we're going to try to embrace that and how we're going to elevate that and how we're going to go into the next couple years on looking at partnerships to make sure that we can take advantage of this, because you really can't do this alone, I think that, whether it's on an advocacy front, education, front and you also don't want to reinvent the wheel on something that somebody else's better so to develop that partnership, make sure that we can take advantage of each other's sweet thoughts and what's the expression that all tides raise all boats, or whatever that is. I probably just messed up, but you know what I meant. And I think that it's important because we need to make sure that we find those right partnerships to be able to thrive.

Speaker 2: 20:08

Yeah, and I think the one thing that Alex talked about with various guests over the last six, seven months is the danger of letting somebody else take our voice and not clearly reflect what we are as an industry and be representative of what we truly are. And I think that's something that there are so many really great passionate people in this and we all want to do it, but there are just so many opportunities out there. It's like how do you stack, rank them and say which ones are the best ones, and it's just methodically putting them in an order and going after them. And the destination one is a really big one that Alex and I tapped into through the podcast and I know we both knew, through the markets that we lived in, how important that working with destinations were. But you start to look at it replicating over and over in other areas and we have a really good friend in the industry who is a destination marketer, jennifer Barbie, and she came to us and was telling us how she was working with small destinations and they said if it had not been for vacation rentals, their destination would have died on the vine during COVID, because they just didn't have anything that was driving any business. All the hotels had to shut down, the restaurants had. They just didn't have anything and it opened their eyes. And so I think it goes back to something that I really it's become like. My rallying cry is we have a platform, we have a voice, we have a light on us. Let's take advantage of it and get together and make sure that we're all not on the same message, but on message and making sure that we're clearly selling the value proposition not only the association of what our industry actually is, because while we are, we have a lot of similarities with the hotel sector. We're very different and we are providing a different level of service and we can coexist. And I think that's something that for a while, there was a mindset that we couldn't work together, and I think it's just because it's all to work together. If we're all in hospitality or tourism, the better we work together, the better we'll be.

Speaker 4: 21:50

I totally agree. I think that, obviously with with my background coming here, I think there's great partnership opportunities. I also think that with hotels, destinations and, of course, vacation, church and rentals, I think that even when there's legislation or a certain regulation that's coming down, if you can say, okay, there's 10 points, there's 10 points of this spell, but we can agree on eight, let's agree on those eight and let's make sure that we're doing what's for the entire lodging industry and the entire lodging ecosystem and so forth. Agree when you can disagree on your certain points, but I do think that it's really important and it was really elevated, as you said, during the pandemic and so forth, where those differences were and where there's opportunities to align. And I think that we're all promoting travel and tourism and there is a place for everyone in this ecosystem. And I think it's important again, we can't do it alone and let's partner with Regime.

Speaker 2: 22:40

So, kimberly, we're getting ready to roll into conference season. Lots of conferences I know I was actually just meeting them out mine. I think we have seven conferences that our team is going to beginning September, and it just always happens that way. But obviously the big one for everybody is the International Conference. This year it's in Orlando, it's at Disney, so it's super exciting to be with the mouse and be at the center of hospitality, for the country is certainly could be argued that it's Orlando. But what are you expecting turnout to be and what do you think that this year's conference is going to present, different from the last two years?

Speaker 4: 23:12

Yeah, absolutely. My biggest message would be to register now. I do believe that we will sell out. We last year for 2022 and 2023, these were rebooks for the pandemic and the space that we have is a little bit smaller because it was booked three, four years ago and so we will sell out. But I do expect this will be, if not the RMA's largest event. But we had 2800 last year in Las Vegas and I believe that we'll be hovering around that this year because I believe we will sell out. I'd love to say we break the 3000 mark, but we are out of capacity and our property at the mouse, and but I think that it's really exciting. It is our largest gathering of the year. There is some things for everyone at this conference. We have tons of different 10 different tracks that we're showcasing on education whether that's advocacy, business strategy, guest relations, human resources, marketing, unrelations tons of different education. I think we have a total of 66 educational sessions at the event, which is just huge, and we have an education committee that works really hard to make sure that they fill out those 10 tracks and make sure that there is an educational opportunity for everyone. But it is an exciting event for us. October is a busy conference season, as you said, but it is VRMA's marquee event of the year and lots of education, lots of networking opportunities. We have our largest exhibit floor yet that we've ever had at VRMA. That is already sold out and lots of business partners as well that will be able to provide our members' products and services to help elevate their businesses and that's the theme of the conference elevate and so I think that it will be our best event as far I know.

Speaker 2: 25:00

I'm excited. We just signed off on our booth. Like we've been working on the booth design for a while and just got that back recently and I'm like really excited about how it's gonna look and it's gonna be so much fun. I think everybody's looking forward to it. So, yeah, and it's good to hear that we've got all kinds of things already planned and that you plan on selling out, because I think again, the more we sell out, the more excitement we get about people being members of the industry.

Speaker 4: 25:21

Yeah, absolutely. I think that it's a really. It is the flagship event of our industry, largest event of the year, and we've got three general sessions, tons and tons of education. We were actually doing three boot camps on the front end on safety and security, and advocacy boot camp and just sales and marketing expertise. So there's tons of things that, regardless of what we talked about earlier, where you are in the industry, whether whatever your job, whether it's housekeeping, sales at an executive level track, there is something for you at the RMAs, at our international conferences. We too are very excited about it and do believe it will be our largest yet.

Speaker 1: 26:01

so I got to go with the board. We went back in January to see the facility and the resort and the conference center. The exhibit hall is massive. That's definitely the biggest space that we've ever had. It's probably two or three footballs stadiums. Yeah, it's huge, but yeah, I think it's gonna be a great event. Is there any spoiler alerts or anything that you can tell us about it, or who's gonna be speaking? That's outside of the industry, of course.

Speaker 4: 26:29

So, we developed took a different approach. We've got a couple of different general sessions. One we really wanted to take advantage of, as Annie said earlier, the home of the mouse, but it is really obviously Orlando being the home of Disney and there's so much hospitality there and so much that we can learn from a company like Disney and what they've been able to achieve in hospitality. So we do have the former head of innovation and creativity of Walt Disney Company. He's the second portal that will be keynoting on day two on Tuesday, so that's really exciting. I think it's important when you're in a destination like Disney to be able to take advantage of that sense of place if you can, and certainly hardly any companies do it better than they do as far as innovation and hospitality. So we're really excited about that. His topic is embedding innovation into everyone's DNA, and so that'll be great. We are doing the future of vacation rentals and having different companies and media skeptical be there and having a general session on the future of our industry, and I did a pre-call with that panel yesterday and they got some great topics that they're looking at of all segments of the industry but really being a forward lens and, let's say, not where we just sit today, but what does the future of our industry look like and what their predictions are? So I think that will be really great. And then we're doing a fireside chat Be an interesting time. We have Google doing a 20 minute presentation on, which will be super interesting, about their global travel business, and rarely do you ever see some of the booking channels on stage at the same time. And but Matland will be moderating a fireside chat between Tim Rosalia with Expedia and BenHero with bookingcom. So that will be our third keynote and so that will also be a really interesting discussion. They had their pre-call yesterday as well, and I got even more excited after listening to all of their pre-calls and I think that it will be as our three keynotes, three teasers there.

Speaker 1: 28:32

Yeah those are good ones, really great. Those are definitely good ones. Yeah, we'll make sure to be there for those for sure. Also, a question about the excellence awards. We are amazed, excellence awards. I've actually had a couple of people that have asked me this week how tell us a little bit about those who makes the decisions on who wins and how those are presented at the conference.

Speaker 4: 28:50

Yeah, absolutely. We pepper those through all three general sessions just to make sure that those awards are presented on the main stage. On this gather about 2000 people in the audience for those three general sessions, and so we will be presenting the excellent awards over those three general sessions. We've got one general session on Monday and two on Tuesday, the 23rd and 24th, and the application process. The portal was open for, I believe, a little bit over a month, four to six weeks, and it closed on Monday, the 31st, july 31st, and it goes to a segment of the Marketing Committee, alex, and the Independent Committee judges all of the applications and all the different categories and so forth, and then it brings those back and so it is an independent committee of the RMA members that judge those excellence awards, with different criteria in each segment. And so I am waiting with anticipation as well, to find out who this year's winners are, and that will be given out at the conference. So that'll be exciting as well.

Speaker 2: 29:54

So another big thing that's coming up because I've been contacted by a few people is new board seats, so the open board seats that people can run for. What would you say to somebody that's interested about it, about running for the board and maybe what they should consider for their platform or who they should talk to, or just anything that anybody thinking about that it would need to consider before they actually threw their hat in the ring?

Speaker 4: 30:16

Yeah, actually that closed as well in London on the 31st. It was a big day for us on our portal and applications. I think that we're so fortunate there's some really passionate people in this industry and we have such. Our board, as we said in the beginning, represents both vocational management side of manager side of the industry, as well as supplier vendors. So we've got 10 and three and I think that there's some really unique people that have so much to offer the industry, that have a wealth of experience they could bring to the board table. But just like any other board, I think it's really important to have VRNA's best interest in mind, making sure that they come at it with a lens that, while they have this incredible wealth of knowledge and experience in the industry, they bring that all to the board table. But it is all about moving and advancing the association or having a forward vision and not having and we're fortunate we don't really have this but like making sure that, whether or not it's their own company or they're in setting up the industry, you come to that board table and you are representing all companies, all friends of the industry, and to be able to have that mindset and come to the table with the spirit of collaboration, come to the table with the spirit of innovation, come to the table with hey my idea didn't make it forward, but I support these others and really making sure that at the forefront is moving the association forward and making sure that. In the beginning you also asked about the division and Alex between what does the staff do and what does the board do. There the board is setting a strategic direction and prioritizing to make sure that our strategies and tactics align with our annual budget and make sure that we can accomplish these goals and that we benchmark what our strategies, tactics and timelines are. And I think that any coming to the table with that mindset and what that role is really important so that it makes everyone successful. It does move the association forward and it allows us to be forward-thinking and have a mindset of growth and strategy.

Speaker 2: 32:24

Yeah, I think it's just good to reiterate it because I think sometimes people can get lost in the sauce, so to speak, and not really understand like there's a greater good. That has to be done whenever you sit on a board and you really have to make sure that you're committed to that greater good and not an independent stream of thought.

Speaker 1: 32:40

Yeah, and I think VRMA does a very good job too, of making sure that there is a mix of the members that are chosen for the board. You have criteria for supplier versus property manager, location, things like that, so you want to make sure that you're getting a good, fair hand of what's really going on in the industry, and that can't happen if you just have a bunch of members that are very similar in size and scope.

Speaker 4: 33:02

Yeah, absolutely. It's important to have different schools of thought, different geography, different backgrounds to be able to bring those well-rounded board together.

Speaker 1: 33:14

Kimberly. We are super excited for VRMA International. That's going to be just a great event and always is a meeting of the minds and it just keeps growing and growing every year and we're excited to see everyone there and I'm excited to be there with the board and have our meeting before and get to be part of all these awesome decisions that we're working on. But in the meantime, if anybody wants to get in touch with you or if they're interested in VRMA, what's the best way to reach out?

Speaker 4: 33:38

Absolutely. We obviously have a regular inbox of VRMA at vrmaorg that general membership questions, general information, so forth. But I'm always available as well and it's kmylesatvrmaorg Always great to meet new people and hear different perspectives and so forth. As I continue to learn and grow and look forward to not only the conference. We've got some big things ahead and big strategies ahead. We're heading into year three of our three-year strategic plan, so we'll be developing a whole new one next year to even take some new ideas that we've put on the table forward. But so it's an exciting time for the association. I think that we're poised for a lot of growth and it's an exciting time for the association. But it's an exciting time for the whole industry and I think that our international conference, while it's the end of this year, it certainly kick off on the year ahead and we're looking forward to it as well. So thank you obviously for your support. Yeah, and thank you both for your support, alex. I appreciate your board service and both of you have sat on committees and committed to the association. So thank you so much, coach.

Speaker 2: 34:45

I would say Nanny, thank you for taking the leap to come over and join the vacation rental business. I know it's been a wild ride. You came on at a crazy time, but you've been a great leader for the association, so we appreciate you just as much.

Speaker 4: 34:59

Thank you so much, it has been a fun ride and I look forward to continuing on. Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 1: 35:06

If anybody wants to get in touch with Annie and I, you can go to alexandannipodcastcom and in the meantime, thanks for joining everybody. We'll see you next week.