Closing Out Strong: Revenue Management and Market Insights for Q4 2024 with Rebecca Ballart of Rev & Research

Alex Husner  0:01  
Welcome to Alex & Annie: The Real Women of Vacation Rentals. I'm Alex and I'm Annie, and we are joined today with a long time good friend Rebecca Ballard, who is the COO of Rev and research. Rebecca, so great to see you today.

Rebecca Ballart  0:15  
Thanks, guys. It's always a pleasure to hang out with with both of you. I enjoy it. Thanks for having me.

Annie Holcombe  0:21  
Absolutely. We're so excited to have you back. Can you give everybody just a little refresher about what you and Rev & Research does? 

Rebecca Ballart  0:28  
Absolutely? So we are a revenue management consulting firm. We work with companies all across the world, actually, and help with not only full service revenue management, but we do help on the consulting side, and in the last couple years, we've started a hybrid so it's not necessarily just full service, but we come in and actually train your team and help implement revenue strategies for every single unit you manage.

Alex Husner  0:55  
Awesome. Well, and we were just recently, the three of us were down in South Walton, 38 area in Florida for the favor Florida Alliance vacation rentals. They had a local chapter event, and it was held at the sheriff's office. And I remember when we got invited to this, we thought, This sounds like a setup, but it ended up not being. And honestly, that was such a fun morning. We were there for, you know, few hours, I'd say, but it was, it was a great kind of, you know, smallish meetup, but a great crowd, and very participant, participatory in the questions. And just had a great conversation. We actually had you up on stage, and we did a live interview talking about all things to do with revenue management, but then also how that really plays into homeowner communications and just best practices, direct bookings, guest experience. And we could, we probably could have gone on and on for hours sitting up there, but to kick it off, I think let's we want to kind of have that same conversation, because it was such a good one, and unfortunately we didn't record it. But kind of to kick us off, like maybe just kind of give a quick snapshot of what you're seeing in the markets that you operate in, and what's going on in the world of revenue right now.

Rebecca Ballart  2:11  
Yeah, I think it's pretty safe to say that 2024 has been a battle. It is been tough for some markets, whether that's due to number of supply increase in the last couple of years, softening demand, more options for the guest in terms of international travel, cruises, all those things kind of have come into play of what this past summer peak season has been I think a lot of people had a little bit higher expectations in terms of where they were going to end up, revenue wise. And I think the biggest takeaway, honestly, is if you were able to kind of recognize some patterns early and follow the data and make some some adjustments pretty quickly, you ended up having a pretty good year. Some people that tried to hold higher rates longer really didn't see that payoff. And so now, as we're kind of going into fall, we're having some really tough owner conversations. Of, you know, July in the Panhandle was, was pretty rough in terms of what it normally does. And so when you have an owner that's expecting the most money that they make in that month, and not coming close to that, or being a little behind, you've got to make that up somewhere else. And as we're going into fall in a slower time, the demand is not exactly there to make up a ton of revenue as you're going into a little bit of a softer time, but I think it's time for everyone to kind of reset, take a real deep dive into what actually happened. What did you do? What did you not do? What did you wish you did? You know there's, there's a couple clients, and I know I called him actually before this. And I was like, Can I say your name? Because Eric, with current tides, he's in Gulf Shores. And it's so funny, like, how this world is so small. We live down the street from each other and connected. When I was on the podcast about a year ago, he's like, wait a second, but for Eric, he's in a very dynamic, you know, very saturated in Gulf Shores. And we saw some stuff very early on, made some adjustments. That was like, Hey, we feel good about these rates compared to what other people are trying to charge. It looked like he was under pricing. And we just did a recap the other day, and was like, Oh my gosh. Like, you crushed the market and occupancy. You crushed it in RevPAR. You actually even ended up getting more. Were in ADR, and it was like, if we wouldn't have made those decisions when we did, would the results have been the same? We don't know. And so it's like, he, he gets to go to the homeowners and say, Hey, we were proactive. We ended up coming out ahead because we made these decisions. And this is why you trust us and our team. So it's, it's, you know, that's one of many examples, but there has been some other ones that aren't great examples and tougher conversations, but it's like, okay, let's dust ourselves off. Let's take a real look at what happened and what let's not repeat it next year, because unfortunately or fortunately, depending on what side of the coin you are, 2025 is looking to be pacing pretty similar to 2024 so if you had a good 2024 great. That's awesome. Good for you, like that's keep in mind what you did. If it wasn't, then let's have the tough conversations of Why, what happened, what went wrong, and let's, let's fix it now in August or now September for next year, so that we can kind of get ahead of that and not repeat the mistakes of this year.

Annie Holcombe  6:19  
So So leaning into that tough conversations. And I think everybody, you know, the big buzz is right now, is everybody talking about like, their Enneagram and what their their personality types? And we have these conversations a lot lately. And I am a classic conflict avoider, like I would kick that can down the road, but I know that the further I kick that can down the road with an owner, the the worse it's going to be. And it's a full on war. So how do you set your team up to have these conversations? And again, it's, it's it's not that anybody did necessarily anything wrong. It's just, there's just so many dynamics at play that unless you're really, really paying close attention, most companies don't have a person to keep the eye on the ball, but they still have to have these conversations. So how do you suggest people go about teeing that conversation up and actually having it? Yeah,

Rebecca Ballart  7:04  
so I think from the very beginning you have to, like, you have to have a stream of communication, whether that's email or it's I've had some clients that do like a loom video to the owners, because when the owners are hearing from you consistently, they know that somebody's looking someone's watching out for them. When they don't hear from anyone for a few months, it's like, that's when those kind of scaling mean emails come across. Because what are you doing? You're just all hanging out at the beach and property manager, it's like, I live at the beach and I haven't been there one time this year. You know that's that's not the case. Um, so it is taking those small moments. I tell my clients all the time, I'm like, celebrate the wins, not only with your team but with your owners. You know, we've been pulling how many check ins did you have this summer? How many states did they these families represent? How many you know, silly things you know, hot tubs, waters? Did you change, like, something like, all of the we have the data and we have these numbers, but sharing that with owners, because then they go, Oh, wow, that team, they saw 10,000 check ins from 34 states, and they accomplished 15,000 work orders. Everyone. They're taking care of my place. You know, they are busy. Yeah, that's why they didn't answer my text message, phone call and email, all at the same time that I sent them on a Saturday during check in time, right? Yeah. I think, okay, no, no, go ahead. I

Alex Husner  8:48  
was just gonna say, I think that the, let me start that over, I think the transparency issue, that's kind of the, you know, the main thing behind all of this. And depending on what system you're using, sometimes that can be more difficult than others, but the more that you can show and communicate with your owners of the things that you're doing, you know that you're not even charging. I mean, if you're going out and just doing something to do it, put a work order, and it doesn't have to have money associated with it. But then whenever you do have to charge them for something, they're not thinking, oh, man, you're nickel and diming because they've already seen you've done a lot of stuff that you haven't charged them anything for, but yeah, it's it's tough, and I like the idea that you mentioned about the loom video, and I've seen some some companies do that, and they send out either in a, you know, email newsletter, or it could be in their owner portal, but I think that's a really good way to do it. And sometimes that's more that's just easier to do. It's more personal. It's easier to do than sitting down and writing a, you know, a long, perfectly written newsletter copy, but it at least, you know, you can get your point across, and they remember that it's you as a person, not just a business owner behind the screen. So definitely recommend that for companies if you're trying to figure out how to communicate with owners. Yeah. Absolutely,

Annie Holcombe  10:00  
yeah. Oh, sorry. So coming off of the tough conversations, one other area that I've been hearing a lot about is, again, the influx of inventory that happened in all of these markets, and that's good and bad. There's a lot more players in the market. There's a lot more ability to kind of diversify your inventory, if that's what you want. But one of the things that I think is really weird, it ugly head, especially now, is that there were people that, again, bought at the height of the market. They got projections from management companies that really had no business projecting because they were new. And then there was realtors, and again, not to throw the realtors under the bus. This is not but that's meant to be. It's just people that didn't have the data to really make solid projections, and they over projected. And so now you've got owners on your plan who are new to the business. They've never been through the ebb and flow of, you know, the market. And so now they're like, Wait a minute. They're in a panic. I paid too much. I'm not making enough. I was told this. I was told that those are the really hard conversations to have because it's almost a no win situation. So you almost get in this in a scenario of like, it's time for us to break up. But before you get to the breakup, how do you talk to them about what it looks like to project when, again, we're coming off of covid, and that just upended projections overall, just up and in the way we think of revenue management. But how do you address that with an owner? Yeah,

Rebecca Ballart  11:26  
I think the elephant is that we don't talk a lot about in the industry, is projections, because I will probably die on this mountain is projections are probably one of the hardest things we do. And the reason being is someone go, well, Rebecca, that's not, don't you work with data? Shouldn't it be easy? And it's like, well, in theory, yes, however, there's so much that goes into a projection, just like what we were talking about supply. So you have, you know, Branson, Missouri is a great example. Two years ago, they had seven, you know, bedroom homes. They maybe had 20 in the whole market. In the last two years, they've had two large developments that have come out with over 300 for, I think one is 300 homes, one's 500 homes of all 567, bedrooms. Wow,

Annie Holcombe  12:17  
oh my gosh. That

Rebecca Ballart  12:18  
changes drastically, because of projections that were in the height of covid, then these large homes that everyone could bring their family to and quarantine and spend time together to then now I literally have 200 other options, all competing in a couple mile radius like that. That just, and I mean, not no shape. Branson's a great market. It is thriving. It's doing well. But there's only so many people going to Branson. They want to to sleep. You know, some of these homes sleep. You know, we always joke. I'm like, Are we pricing hotels? No. People. That's kind of like a small hotel, um, you know. So it's those type of things go into projections if you know, you have a storm that happened and it took out a lot of the inventory. You know, Maui is another great example a projection in Maui is so tough right now because you have some inventory coming on, you have some going off, you have some that have converted to long term for residents. You have sure, you know, just it, there's, there's so many environmental factors that go into projections that is, is really tough. And you know, no like, no dis to real estate agents, but when they do projections, they they basic kind of how they price a house. Well, for us in the vacation rental market, there's a lot more factors there. How much is the owner going to use it? How much you know are we really going to be able to rent? Are there HOA restrictions that require a certain amount of nights? You know, if it is a seven night minimum in a very traditional beach market, it's going to be tough. It's it's going to be tough because there's a lot of other options that don't require seven nights. So that is going to be a hit to the revenue. I think also, the other hard part that we don't address enough is year one projection versus two on right one is always the toughest year, because you're getting all those OTA listings going, you're getting reviews, you're getting the photos, depending on when a house is coming on the market. This year, I was just really blown away with how many of our clients were onboarding in the middle of summer. That never happens. That is bizarre, yeah, is for owners that were coming to them going, Well, my calendar is blank. I don't have anything to lose.

Annie Holcombe  14:54  
Yeah, exactly.

Rebecca Ballart  14:57  
That's not okay, that you should. Be having both calendars right now? Well, let's, you know, how fast can we get our team to to onboard this, to get you, you know, any little bit of summer. And so I do think that the time of the year also plays a role in it. It's how fast we can get it, get it ready if it needs any, you know, improvements or anything like that. So, yes, the other thing is using market data to create those projections. But market data is is really tough, and I think as we get access to more data, it gets harder, yeah, because there's so many variables, so even when you're, you know, setting rates or things like that, I've become a huge advocate of using your own portfolio as a benchmark. Yeah, because you know how you distribute your rates. Are you rolling your fees in? Are you distributing them separately? Are you you know? How is that being pushed out? What is your channel markup look like? All of those things. When you're looking at these other properties online, you don't know the backstory to what that owner's actually taking home. What is their submission split? All of those things go in to that. And I don't think we really think about that. We just go, oh, the market average is $300 a night. So I better put my house around $300 it's like, well, average, some could be a lot higher than 300 some could be a lot lower. Yeah, this home's already struggling. It doesn't need to be at 300

Alex Husner  16:36  
and what wouldn't wouldn't you say that? I mean, you've been in Gulf Shores for a very long time. I've been here in Myrtle Beach, and he's been in Panama City for a long time. And I think, like, if not, not that any of us are property managers, but when you've worked in a market for a long time, and it's a lot of these, you know, you know the inventory, especially in the condos side, that you can give the property managers, the companies you go to, can give a pretty accurate projection that's going to be better than what the data is going to show, because the data could be data could be more skewed. But I feel like it's, you know, sometimes it's just best to rely on the property managers themselves. And, you know, really not look, you know, get whatever the realtor tells you, but verify back. But I've seen it go both ways too, that sometimes property managers, they don't have that market data for that type of accommodation, and they are, you know, just looking at what they can get externally, and it's been way off. I mean, I talked to a homeowner earlier this year that they had projected well over $100,000 in rental income, and he wasn't even in the 10s. So, I mean, a massive difference, yeah, you know it's, it's scary, but I think you know one, one important thing to keep in mind, too, is as you come towards the end of the year. I mean, this is really you should be thinking about this before the end of the year, but as your guests are staying, you need to be doing things to get them to rebook for next year. Whether that's a reduced deposit policy, we used to always do a $99 deposit to reserve the property, the balance of the deposit due, you know, within 30 days. So it's like, you get them on the hook. It's non refundable, but like, you've got, you've got, got them in there, and then continues to continuously follow up to make sure that they complete the rest of the deposit. But going into the new year is super important to get those early bookings on the books, whether it's rebooking people that are here or planning for now heading into the fall, like, what are we going to whether it's Black Friday sales or Cyber Monday sales or Thanksgiving sales or Christmas sales? Like, what are you doing to prepare? Prepare ahead of time, so that those owners have bookings already on there that they're not going to think about changing, you know, in next summer, because they're like, Okay, I've already got a good amount of bookings at this point. So, so it's a lot to think about, but the owner education is probably as important as the as the property manager education that we seek to provide. But

Annie Holcombe  18:58  
so what do you you know, I was thinking, because we did bounce back coupons. And I was talking to somebody recently that I said, Well, you know, what are you doing for your repeat or, you know, getting people to come back again. They're like, Oh, you know, we put our rates up at the beginning of the year, and then we'll send an email out. And it's like, well, you have them right at the property. Like, why are you not putting something in the property to say, like, right rebook, and here's a discount for the next booking, whether it be in the fall or the winter or the spring or whatever, next year. And people are like, Oh, I don't want to discount next year. But again, if you get that base on the books, like you can, you know, you can

Alex Husner  19:28  
go as it's you position it as a discount, but it's 10% off next year's rate, right, which

Annie Holcombe  19:35  
should be up by 15% anyway. But I think, again, it's getting people, it's getting people in that mindset of thinking long term. And I think that that's the problem. Is people have been about the short grab, the short term grab. It's like, I can get it now and get it now, and then they forget, like, Oh crap. And then all of a sudden, you're sitting here, like we felt in the Panhandle and most everywhere last year, April came upon us, and the bottom fell out. And everybody was like, how did this happen? Those of us who were white. Watching it. We're like, you guys need to pay attention, but it's just getting people in that mindset that you need to have a strategy that looks out more than just a couple of months at a time, but also to your point, going back to, like, communicating with the owners, make sure that they're aware all along the process, and it'll save you from having those really tough conversations if you're doing that. But I wanted to ask you, just based on this year and the conversations that you've had with your partners, what do you what are other things that people could be doing, um, while guests are in house to enhance that experience, so that ultimately, you know, again, they may not come back to the same market year after year like people used to do, but they're going to recommend you. So what can, what can they be doing? I mean, do you think it's, it's about the rate, or do you think it's going back to that tried and true, like Guest Services,

Alex Husner  20:46  
it's guest experience.

Rebecca Ballart  20:47  
Yeah, it's absolutely hands down guest experience. I mean, you think about that added value. I mean, if you think about even, you know, not even using a short term rental example, but you use a restaurant if you know my husband and I want to go out for a nice steak dinner, and we want to go, and we go, Hey, we want to spend a little bit more money because it's our anniversary. And we go to this restaurant with high expectations. We know we're going to pay more. We're expecting a high level of service. We're expecting for the food to be excellent. We're happy. We tell everyone, oh my gosh, we tried this new restaurant. It's wonderful. Yeah, I don't have those same expectations. When I go through the drive through at Starbucks, like, right? I'm getting my food, I'm getting it fast, and I'm going, you know, I'm not, but it's, I know, that's kind of a silly example, maybe a smaller example of, you know, fast food restaurant. You're not going to have that same expectations and that same brand loyalty about spending your anniversary at Chick fil A, I mean, maybe, but I mean, if that's your deal, that's great. But I think when you you have to make have the guests understand, what if they're paying a little bit more money, or you want to push that ADR, in summer, like there has to be a perceived value there. It has to be that they are, know what they're they're paying for. So if your branding is your luxury home brand, then everything from the moment that that guest books with you to the moment they leave has to have that level of luxury on it. And that's looking, you know, we were talking before, the call is like, this is a great time of the year to do a audit of your communications. What is, what is that looking like? How you know, are you educating the guests on how to book direct? There's so many new guests coming into vacation rentals for their first time. They don't know, they don't know that you have a website, they don't know that they can save a ton of money by bookings. Or it's all about that education, where you might feel like, oh my gosh, we're saying this so much everyone knows, but they don't, and so we have to give them a reason to come back and use you over and over again, and then, like you said, making sure they're leaving happy, so that they're then going to telling their friends, oh my gosh. We had a great trip. We stayed at this place. It's awesome. Hey, by the way, if you go book direct, because you can save money, and I actually had to pay a bank fee on an online site, but if you don't, then you, like, everyone shares that kind of information, like even social media that's becoming more popular with some of these, like travel bloggers and just different things. It's like, you know, it's one of my family members were like, is this real? And it was like a tick tock reel of someone that was like, How to save on vacation wrinkles. And I was like, You guys, this is not new.

Annie Holcombe  23:37  
Happens all the time, like, just in their face. Now see what

Rebecca Ballart  23:39  
I do all the time. You know, thanks, thanks. You know, because I don't have a million followers on I don't even have a Tiktok, but if I did, like that's but that is where society's at. You know, we can't just assume that everyone knows and everyone knows how to book direct. So we have to make that flow easy, and we have to make that communication clear and that guests have, you know, they feel good, and then they do want to rebook when they're at the property of, oh my gosh, this was such a nice vacation, you know, if it's a vacation from hell, no, they're not going to want to book again right out of here. We're going to go somewhere else next time, you know. So it's, it's just creating that relationship and that brand loyalty is is really important, especially as supply is increasing and there's new companies popping up, and, you know, there's they're growing very fast. There's a lot of new companies and a lot of traditional vacation markets that are just exploding because they are doing the things that we're talking about today. They are having those conversations. From the beginning, they are clearly explaining their expectations. They're not afraid to challenge the norm, and they're shaking stuff up. And it's it's really cool and really exciting to be a part of some of those, those companies that are coming into those markets and watching their. Success because they're just challenging the norm. And it's really interesting to kind of see that play out, yeah, for

Alex Husner  25:07  
sure. And I think you know, to your initial point of taking the time during this time of year to really look at that audit of what the guest communication flow is, that's one of the things that I do with with all of my clients now. And it's, it's really and it's very interesting experience, because you almost always uncover things that are going out, things that are being said that you don't want to be said, that the timing is wrong, that there's overlap. And you think about it, when a guest books on, whether it's Airbnb or on your direct website, in a lot of cases, they're getting your booking, a booking receipt that just has like, this is confirmation you paid. Then the next is a confirmation, a true confirmation email. Then the next is the rental agreement that they've got to log on somewhere else to sign. And then it just it continues. And so it's like, if they've also booked through a channel, they're going to get something from that too. And by the time that you actually arrive at the destination, and this happens to me all the time, I'm like, I don't even know which one of these emails which one of these emails I need to be looking at. Like, just give me the clear, concise information. But this is a really good time of year to look at that and make sure your staff understands. Like, between, there are some nuances between, if somebody books on an OTA versus on your own, but like, really map it out. I mean, use a spreadsheet, use a piece of paper, a bill or a whiteboard, whatever makes sense. But, and it doesn't have to just be marketing people that go through this exercise, it actually would be, I think, really helpful to have a reservationist go through the exercise so they see too, and then you can figure out, Okay, does it make sense? Should we be adding something different? Should we be texting them here? You know, should we be calling them like what whatever the case may be, but you've got to look at that data. Of you know, if you're getting a million inquiries from people the night before they're supposed to check in, probably should look and figure out how you can deliver that information and anticipate when people need it so that that cuts down on your customer service calls to the office Absolutely,

Rebecca Ballart  27:02  
and something that we've we've really recommended, and I know that not everyone has the ability to do this, but go stay in a short term rental in a place that you've never been before, and it'll be a very eye opening experience to you. You'll learn some things we just we went this summer over to Sicily and booking some short term rentals in that area is very different. We had a great experience. But the something that was really it hit us as odd. First is, every single one of our hosts met us at the property talking about that, yeah, they messaged us, and it had to do what they needed to take register our passports to make sure that we were supposed to be there, because that's connected to their license. But at first it was like, they want to meet us. Like, can't they just send us a door code? Like, yeah, yeah,

Alex Husner  27:53  
exactly. I've just got a lot of there's a lot of companies I know, especially in like 38 that they do that, that they know the guests when they're checking in. And honestly, I don't know what the right way to do that is. I think the intent on that is to deliver and have that face to face experience, since guests aren't having to come to a front desk to check in anymore, but I feel like it should be optional that I guess can select if they want that, because sometimes, I mean, you've been driving, like, I don't want to see anybody right now.

Annie Holcombe  28:24  
I'm dressed in my my pajamas still, or whatever, is a whole different thing. And that was the big topic at this event that we went to, was the Atlanta, you know, people coming down and, like, the parties and those things. So I think it's like each management company has to feel that one out for themselves. Um, but I think like talking about your end of the year audit and things. And, of course, like, my side of the coin is always like on the distribution side, so I recommend everybody do exactly the same thing, but on the exterior, on the distribution and, like, look at what worked. Look at what didn't work. What else is out there. I mean, you talk to you again. At next packs, we have 150 plus channels that we can offer now. Do they all work for everybody? Absolutely not. But can I sit down with you and look at your market and say, like, strategically, which ones you should add to your mix to maybe get another one or two reservations in these shoulder periods? And I think that people just look at, oh, there's only Airbnb or VRBO or there's, you know, like they're just looking at the solid ones that have supported them for a long time, but then they're suffering from the I'm only getting all my reservations from these two channels, and they're like, how do I wean off? Well, the way to wean off is to diversify and have more of it. So right now, why? It's slow and you're in this shoulder period, it's a really good time to sit down with either your channel manager or your channel partner rep, or even, you know, if they have a Rebecca, they have a revenue manager, like, sit down and really look at that and again, to tighten this to the point of the guest communication flow, it's that flow of reservations, like, where can you plug in the different channels for the different pieces of your calendar that make the most sense? And I don't think that people are using the channels as strategic as they could. Absolutely.

Rebecca Ballart  29:58  
I agree. Because you think about these big brands, you've got the Expedia brands and Marriott brands and and now, you know, some of the other credit cards are getting into this space, and it's like their marketing budget is a lot more than probably, right? Yeah, marketing very extreme level. So let them market for you. Take advantage of that, you know, we always, we've talking, you know, a very common point that we have this time of the year is, you know, it's, it's not about creating demand. If I could create demand, I would probably not have to work because I could, yeah, I could sell that very, very easily. But it's all about creating interest. And if you are kind of in that softer time of demand. Like Annie was saying, like, getting a couple bookings on Google is, is great, like, that's added revenue, you know, whether you know, or whatever channel it may be, a whim stay, you know, filling in those gaps in those calendars that this time of the year. I mean, yes, we all want them to come directly, but the reality of it is, for many markets, people are on these OTAs and they're searching. And so if your price is right and they're converting, let's go like, Let's get them booked. Yeah,

Alex Husner  31:15  
and that's such a I love that you brought that up of not creating demand, it's about creating interest. And I agree to a certain point, I will say this that I remember there was a conversation years ago with one of the companies I worked with that they said, You know, I don't think we need to worry about, we shouldn't worry as much about creating, trying to create demand, like it's already there or it's out of our control, and we should just be manipulating it, basically with the rates and how we do things like Not exactly. So I mean, there, you know, the demand is going to ebb and flow with the destination and what some of the higher powers are doing to promote the destination, but it is your responsibility to create the demand that's going to focus on you and not your competitor, right? And then, and this, we talk about this all the time. My revenue and marketing really need to work together, because, you know, just dropping your rates is not going to get you bookings. I mean, maybe it will. But like that, is that a sustainable business model? Absolutely not. And if you ever want to, if you want to be increasing revenue, of course, that makes no sense. So the sweet spot is being able to, you know, really capitalize on your list and your, you know, the avenues and channels that you have to be able to create that demand within at least your own ecosystem, and then the rates are complementary to that, that hopefully they're priced right, so that they don't go and look on another site and you created the demand, but somebody else benefited from it, right?

Annie Holcombe  32:35  
It's the old share shift, you know, like, there's always a bit of share coming into the market, like, unless your market is absolutely one of those that shuts down for reasons. Of like, there are markets that absolutely have to shut down in the middle of winter or summer or whatever. There's always going to be somebody coming in that market. Now, are is it? Do you want the guy that's always stayed at the Motel Six to stay at your five? But No, probably not. That's a different customer. But there is demand coming to the market, as long as you're making yourself available on the most sites possible. You can price it any way you want to to get that. But it's, it's about, actually, you know, Alex, you're spot on. I mean, there's demand. It's about you harnessing that honestly, the benefit, yeah, yeah, the benefit of you. So it's share shift from your competitors. But I think Rebecca, like what you said earlier, like using yourself as a benchmark instead of using your neighbor as a benchmark, is really, really where you have to start, fundamentally, absolutely,

Rebecca Ballart  33:25  
and it's it's knowing your home and knowing that you know, if you have a minimum price of $150 that that's kind of what the owner said, Hey, anything less than that, it doesn't make sense for me to rent if you're sitting here for the next you know, three months at $150 and you're looking at your market occupancy at 10% you don't have a pricing issue. You have a demand issue like so that that's where leaning in to kind of see what the market is doing. Is the market picking up, and you're not, because you might have that owner that wants to put that at $500 a night, and the market's all sitting at 150 open as well, having that really brutal conversation of that owner going down to 450 is that going to make them get a booking? No. Like, you know it's, it's tough because we always say, No, it's not going to then they get a booking, and it's like, Oh, great. But other times it's like, They that owner that then we do get them down to $200 a night, they don't get a booking, and then they're still upset. So it's, yeah, it's knowing what's actually happening in your market, knowing when to have those conversations where it's like, hey, the market is picking up. The market's booked. You know, we're holding a little too high. I think if we get this down 20 or $25 a night, we could probably get it booked. I think that's where as property managers, this is what they pay us to do to have those conversations. And at the end of the day, I can put my head on the pillow and know that I did everything possible to get that home booked. If that owner has those expectations that are too high for market value, then i i. It's not a loss to me, you know. It's a we tried, you know, and maybe next year we will be able to have a better conversation of what are your realistic expectations for the summer, and can we set those rates appropriately now so that we we don't sit empty. And so that's coming full circle to those owner conversations. I know we keep going back to that, but it really is so, so important, because owner retention is also, you know, something, that it's not just losing owners, but you think about how much money goes into owner turn, oh, yeah, very scary exercise to do what it actually costs to onboard a new property and then for them not to stay with you a full year, to get that money back, like that's so that's so heart wrenching. Yeah?

Alex Husner  35:51  
I mean the time that you're putting in when you're making nothing, essentially, it's, yeah, labor intensive. Well, before we go, Rebecca, if there was one thing that you think property managers should be thinking about, it's, you know, end of or early September at this point. What do you think they should be thinking about before the end of the year? And what should, what should they do if you had to hit one thing? Yeah,

Rebecca Ballart  36:13  
I think it's, it's really sitting down with your data. You know, we all know how to put filters on to make ourselves feel better about, you know, just how we get mad at social media influencers for putting filters on their pictures to make them not look like reality, like we gotta take natural but look at the data through transparency. And you know, it feels overwhelming, but there's people out there, like our team and there's others consultants in the in the industry that will help you walk through that. Let's look at what went right and what went wrong, because the people that have already set their rates well for 2025 are seeing really good pace right now. Yeah. And so there's nothing better than having owners have money on the calendar for 2025 that guaranteed that they're going to stay with you through that, you know, for the most part. So it's, it's really diving into your data. And it's not a one size fits all. Unfortunately, it's, yeah, you know, while we bought a pricing tool, and it's supposed to price, and it's supposed to do all these things at the end of the day, it is just a tool. It's just a tool

Alex Husner  37:25  
operate tools. So, yeah, yeah, it is, hopefully, don't have a tool operating the tool. But, yeah,

Rebecca Ballart  37:34  
yeah, no, no tools over here, but, but it is going through it unit by unit, and having those, you know, moments of wins and losses, like, okay, maybe you missed the mark this year. That's okay. We don't need to sit in it and wallow. We need to take steps forward. And what does that look like? You know, we talk about revenue management strategy a lot, but people you know are like, well, what are Yeah, we have a revenue management strategy. We have a dynamic pricing tool. And it's like, that's not your strategy, like, that's your tool. Your tool and your strategy have to co insist together, and you have to sit on top of that. And you need to be the human element, the market expert, the the person that knows the big events that are happening in your area, that all of that goes into it. So it's, it's really rolling your sleeves up this time of the year and getting into the data and knowing when to ask for help. It doesn't mean that you're inadequate asking for help. We, I love those role we have because we're not emotionally invested in this. You know, we don't know these owners. So we don't know kind of their relationships. We get a very, you know, Switzerland, look at everything where it's just kind of like, Hey, this is this work. This didn't, well, you know, we really love this owner, and we really, you know, didn't want to tell them. And it's like, Okay, we have to have that hard conversation, right? Yeah, you know, so it's it is really leaning on those, those people or things that can help you look at your data and how to set it up correctly. And so it's that time of the year. It's that time where you're just reevaluating everything, whether it's your revenue management strategy to your PMS stack to your tech stack, like all of those things as we're kind of going in, and we know if things were a little bit tighter this year, like you're gonna have to make money to have all those things, or you're gonna have to trim down some things. So it's we're our team's definitely here to help if you need to kind of have those conversations. We We love it, and that's what we will enjoy doing therapy.

Alex Husner  39:42  
I think therapy,

Rebecca Ballart  39:45  
we tell that all the time. I tease Ben. I'm like, I'm going to go back to college and get my yeah

Annie Holcombe  39:50  
therapist license.

Rebecca Ballart  39:52  
Sure, half of our our revenue calls are always especially this time of the year, because everyone's kind of feeling the Yeah. Business. And I'm like, Yeah, okay, you know. And because all of our whole team has been sat on the property management side, so we understand, yeah, you know, someone was saying, Oh, we just found out a balcony is going to be closed for the next three months. And I'm like, right? I know exactly how that feels. You have to have those tough conversations with people that have booked, you know, months in advance coming. So it's, it's definitely, I'm very big advocate of therapy, and beautiful to talk to someone, because it's industry. It's, it's great, but it is. Some days are real crazy. So talk to people about it, yeah, if somebody

Annie Holcombe  40:36  
wants to book a therapy session with you, yeah? What's the best way for them to get in touch with you? Yeah,

Rebecca Ballart  40:41  
you could email Rebecca. Revan research com, we're on LinkedIn or our website. Revan research com, we've gotta Contact Us form so our team will be at favor coming up. We'll be at International, we'll be at DARM. We're we're going on the road for like, here we go. But it's so great. Yeah, see all of our friends, and it's, it's always fun where you're like, oh, I don't get to just sit behind a zoom. I get to, like, hang

Alex Husner  41:13  
out, see you, and get to see you multiple times coming up. And I know our audience will be excited to see you, meet you if they haven't met you before. But in the meantime, if anybody wants to get in touch with Annie and I, you can go to alexandanypodcast.com and until next time. Thanks for tuning in, everybody. Thanks. So my mouse is dead, so at

Annie Holcombe  41:35  
least you don't have a dead mouse brought in. No,

Alex Husner  41:37  
I can't. And it's not that it's dead. Is that the dogs are always on. They're not that down there right now, but they're always, like, messing around in my computer cables and so, like, I think it's, they're like, loose. So I barely touched my computer and it just, it's done.

Annie Holcombe  41:54  
It's Friday. It's ready to go. It says when, oh my gosh, where are you going? Are you guys have a concert or anything at the Yeah, not, not

Rebecca Ballart  42:02  
this week. We're done. Yeah, we got, there's no big

Annie Holcombe  42:06  
concert this weekend. I mean, it's Labor Day weekend. I would have thought they would have had, like, a big series

Rebecca Ballart  42:10  
there. They might have, but we did so Live Nation back in May, did concert tickets for $25 all in, oh, wow. So that's why we went to all the concerts that we did this summer. We got, it was like, I think we saw like, seven shows for like, $350 like, it was like, yeah, it was

Annie Holcombe  42:29  
Wow. And so where do you guys live, close to the wharf, on that side? Okay, do you live on that side of the intercostal or do you live down towards the beach?

Rebecca Ballart  42:37  
We live right off the beat, um, beach Express, nine. Okay, yeah. So it's like, a few minutes, okay, yeah, yeah, development,

Annie Holcombe  42:44  
that's, is it up north, up north of the outlet mall, right? Yeah.

Rebecca Ballart  42:50  
Okay, yeah, we're a little bit so we're between OHA and the wharf. Gotcha, like, we're in that area. So, yeah, it's like, I mean, like to go to the movies or go out to dinner for 50 bucks. Like, yeah, we can't. And so some of the shows are not super fun when it's like,

Alex Husner  43:08  
oh yes, I'm gonna jump so I've got to take it all right. We'll talk

Annie Holcombe  43:12  
to you later. Thank you. Bye. Bye.