Getting Creative: Unlock Your Next Great Idea at Keystone Retreats with Steve Schwab and Matt Landau

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We'll start the show in just a minute, but first a word from our premier brand sponsor, casago.

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Welcome to Alex and Annie, the real women of vacation rentals. With more than 35 years combined industry experience, alex Hussner and Annie Holcomb have teamed up to connect the dots between inspiration and opportunity, seeking to find the one story, idea, strategy or decision that led to their guest's big aha moment. Join them as they highlight the real stories behind the people and brands that have built vacation rentals into the $100 billion industry. It is today and now it's time to get real and have some fun with your hosts, alex and Annie.

Speaker 1: 1:21

Welcome to Alex and Annie, the real women of vacation rentals. I'm Alex and I'm Annie, and we are joined today with two very special guests. We have Steve Schwab and Matt Landau, who, among other things, are the co-founders of Keystone Retreats, and we are super excited to have you both here today. So, matt, you also are founder of VRMB and have been involved in a lot of different things in the industry. Your podcast was one of the best podcasts that has ever come into this space. You stopped doing it back in December. I remember that was a bit of a shock to all of us and a sadness, but wanted to just hear how you've been since that point and what's going on in your life.

Speaker 4: 2:04

Oh, I've been great, I've been excellent. The last year of my life and it coincides a great deal with Keystone has been very introspective I would say much more introspective than I've been in the past and I reached a moment towards the end of last year that I was starting to feel some of the signs of burnout that I experienced back when I was running my vacation rental business and that ultimately drove me to sell that business, to leave the operation side of the industry, and I started to sense those signals. Some people may resonate with them. It's not quite as excited and enthusiastic as you were at the beginning. It's feeling like you are spread thin, like you're doing a million different things and you can't put all of your focus into anyone, just juggling. And it starts to become a little overwhelming when you're someone who wants to make progress and you want to grow, and I think that all of us have that in common here in this industry. But I wasn't exactly sure where do I find that fire? So we hosted the first Keystone retreats back in August and I think the feeling that both Steve and I felt and the feeling that all of our guests felt was something new and something that I could get really excited about again and that kind of acted as the inspiration to keep evolving the Keystone retreats concept and it also served as like a lens for me to start viewing my projects in a new way. And it just so happens that the podcast, as I used to host it was a great medium and I will be coming back to the world of podcasting. I'm very excited. It will just have a slightly different kind of focus and depth to it. So really, the last year for me has been about looking inwards and addressing some things that I wanted to in order to evolve.

Speaker 2: 4:25

So you're now rejuvenated. You started Keystone, you brought Steven. So, steve, where were you at? I guess maybe in your journey last year when you joined Keystone and got this kind of off the ground?

Speaker 5: 4:38

Yeah, I think that Matt and I both went into this with a very different idea of what it ended up being, and Matt and I have such different approaches to the world that putting us in close quarters and having us, you know, work through a lot of our goals was a big growth for me personally. New approaches, getting to learn from Matt and hopefully being able to return that favor, but coming out of it with a whole different perspective of where I fit into the community and the industry and the amount of connections and perspective on the quality people that were there has really been a foundational pivot for me and I think that's really a greater sense of responsibility to of how I interact with the community. So, yeah, I think that when Matt and I got this going, I accidentally ended up in Florida and I was renting a Turo and the Turo had been crashed the day before. So they handed me this black Corvette with these yellow racing stripes in it and on it I called up Matt and was like what are you doing? He's nothing. I was like I'm coming to pick you up and it was those couple of days where the plan and the ideas were hatched and I think it's been very good for my soul and I think it's been great for Matt's soul, and I think that self discovery on our behalf is. But also that has really been the foundation of what we've hoped to bring to all the attendees of Keystone. It's more than just a conference where you learn how to do a hard skill. There's a lot of self discovery and clarity, and in doing that, I think that we've been able to get that back in return in multiples, so it's been fantastic.

Speaker 1: 6:42

Yeah, I think the experience that you guys provide at these retreats of sure comes tenfold in the stories and the learnings that you hear from the attendees and your training very important things and getting people to look at just their lives and their businesses in a different way. And one thing that I took away from Keystone Treat and I went back in February to the one that you hosted in Georgia was that this retreat it really it's not just about the business. It really is about looking internally and looking at your values and where the opportunities are for you in the future, you and your company. I do remember one story, matt. You told about heading into the first one and actually I think you might have told it on our podcast last year your honor show about this time last year and you said that going into it you were so nervous and you said I just I feel like I'm not going to know what to say when the people get there, but you had an encounter, I think, in Canada that led to how you built the program. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Speaker 4: 7:48

Yeah, I was at a barbecue. I was visiting the offices of Perto, which is based in Vancouver there, and I was invited to a barbecue and I was sitting down next to this guy and we just started chatting and I asked what I did and I told him that I was going to be hosting a retreat and he was like no way, I help people host retreats for a living. And I was like, okay, what do you got for me? And we ended up just having the most engaging discussion that evening. We went out to breakfast the next morning. I called Steve. Steve had a conversation with him. His name is Jordan. I think the most interesting thing, perspective that Jordan brought, as an outsider and somebody who had done this before, was that to have a transformative retreat it doesn't just happen by accident. You have to think through the feelings and the environments that you want to create and at the beginning that was completely foreign to me. I had no idea what he was talking about. In fact, we had in our head we were going to do a lot of round table discussions. That was what we knew worked from our conferences. But in the process, just learn that there is a kind of a science and an art to hosting events, to hosting special events, if you want people to feel really safe and to open themselves up to real change. And that was the beginning of a big learning process for me.

Speaker 2: 9:32

I talked to a few people that have attended the various ones. First of all, kudos for what you've done, because I think you've brought the industry to a point that it realizes that we're better off the more we share with each other and that if we lift each other up and help each other along, that we get stronger. The one word that several people used about attending was transformative is that they went in with one perspective and they came out with a completely different perspective. They went in thinking that they were the only ones experiencing certain things within their business and walked out realizing that it was this whole community that was dealing with the same strife and stresses. You did create an environment where people could feel safe and feel creative and feel collaborative. Again, I haven't attended, but just from what I've heard on the outside of how people walked away feeling that's just something that everybody needed, especially post-COVID. I think people worked so hard and so heavy and just felt all the stressors of the world on them and you were able to take small pockets of people and put them together and really give them a safe space to just not commiserate I don't want to, that sounds like doom and gloom but just really unload the things that were challenging to them and talk through. Alex gave me a little bit of insight on the one that she went to without telling secrets. She gave me some of the fun that you guys had, but I think just creating an environment that wasn't just about people talking at each other. It was talking with each other and really hearing each other and giving again that safe space for people to talk. I hope that you guys have found it to be good for yourselves as much as the community seems to have felt it was good.

Speaker 4: 11:08

One thing I've learned is that there's always a layer deeper beneath the problem. If you have a group of people that you respect and that you trust, who are helping peel back those layers, when you finally put your finger on the root problem, solving that doesn't just solve all the layers on top, it solves everything. It's way bigger than you actually realized the potential that you have.

Speaker 1: 11:39

Are you going to for the future Keystones, are you using a similar program or are you going to be updating the activities or what does that look like in the future?

Speaker 4: 11:50

Steve, do you want to share some of our openly share some of our ideation?

Speaker 5: 11:55

Sure, yeah, I think Matt and I have spent a lot of time talking about it. I think every time we're on the phone, this comes up as part of what does the future look like? I think that what we've found is pretty incredible and what the form that is taken is a one of a kind, but Matt and I, through ours the conversation, think that it can be better and taking new shape and going even deeper and get even clearer with what it looks like is the next iteration of Keystone. We think that there's going to be both hard and soft skills that are going to come out of this more clarity, deeper self-reflection, more hard skills, like we've done as separate units of cohorts, but the constant improvement of the value that we're bringing through Keystone is going to be the real next level for it.

Speaker 1: 12:54

Makes sense.

Speaker 4: 12:55

We always start with this question. It's like how do we cultivate more great thoughts, more great thought leaders? That's always how we begin these conversations and there's so many different ways that you can take that question. There's so many ways that you can think about building the next generation of leaders in our industry and beyond. So it really is like a bottomless.

Speaker 1: 13:21

Yeah, for sure. I remember, before going to Keystone, seeing some of the pictures, I was very excited about it. But I'll be completely honest, some of the pictures I saw that involved Legos and arts and crafts I thought I don't know if I'm going to. This isn't really not my thing, but come to find out. Actually, probably my favorite part of the whole retreat was the Lego exercise that you did. I couldn't believe how much I actually enjoyed that, and I remember sitting next to Valerie from Perdido Key Hawkins and she said the same thing. I think both of us had this sheet of just white that went over our faces when we saw all the Legos poured down in front of us and, oh, what are we going to do. But it ended up being a really great activity and I think building out with our teams what your next big leap looks like was really transformative, literally for the groups that we worked in. And then to also listen to everybody that was there share their story about what was going on and what that next big leap was going to be for them. You left, you went into it not knowing really anything about these people and by the end, everything about them are a very large amount, but I think the relationships are really important, right, and I think, however you structure these activities, that's really. There is a lot of weight there and there's probably a lot of pressure on you guys to continue to find things like that can still have that same effect. But I'm excited to see what you guys do next, because that's a hard one to top.

Speaker 4: 14:50

Alex, I recently enlisted in an art workshop for adults Interesting and at the beginning of each session we're given some materials like pens or colored pencils, papers, but every time at the beginning I have the exact same feeling that I did with the legos it's a little awkward, I'm rolling my eyes, I don't really want to do this and I realized that it is always that feeling that leads to some really big discoveries, creatively speaking, and it's just my aversion to it or my impression of it. Oh, this is silly or this is for children. That's actually the signal that you're actually going to be honest with your health about something.

Speaker 2: 15:44

Yeah, what about you, steve? What's your perspective on things coming out of this?

Speaker 5: 15:49

Out of Keystone. I think that before that, back to the Legos. I think the Legos are just a medium to get the focus off your own self and onto what the obstacle or the leap is. It can be anything like any sort of art or any sort of object. It's just a mind shift of getting away from your own ego and your own. What about framing what the issue is into something that's outside your own head? That really makes the breakthroughs. I think that the amount of connections that come out of this and the community that's happening through these different cohorts, getting to know each other on a real personal basis, is one of the biggest values for not just the people that are there but the industry as a whole. It reminds me a little bit of the saying talking about how, if you wanted to stop wars, make everybody travel. When you start to understand people where they're at and what their wants and needs are, conflict ends. You watch a lot of the keystoneers come through and get to know each other and the relationships that are built. I think that 20 people at a time, our industry gets a little bit tighter and cooperation and help and the feeling of camaraderie, of sticking together, happens. I think that is one of the greatest things that is happening outside of this initiative. Then you start to hear people now speaking out and speaking up that have been through this. The community as a whole has had a very limited set of voices in it for a long time. These new voices, having the authority and bravery to stand up and say something out loud and bring new opinions and ideas to the industry, is something that will grow all of us over time and push the industry forward over the next 10, 20 years.

Speaker 1: 18:09

We talk a lot on the podcast about bringing together the STR side with the professionally managed vacation rental managers and how there's been a divide really and COVID obviously made that a lot worse. Knowing that there are so many more of these newer managers that are coming into this industry than there are the professional ones that have been around for so long, do you see keystone and having any role in being able to help with that? Is there any intent to try and bring in some of those voices to these events?

Speaker 4: 18:45

I think the best way I think about it is, instead of worrying about labels or how long somebody has been in an industry or how many properties somebody has, uniting people with new values I think is very powerful. If it's a value of curiosity, let's say that's one of my values, and you attract other curious people, that makes for a paradigm change because suddenly all of these people aren't thinking about the technical label of their business. Rather they're thinking about asking more questions than learning more. We talk a lot about values within the methodology and identifying your own values as a professional and the values of a company. When you start uniting people by values like curiosity and generosity, creativity, suddenly it pulls up a kind of quality. In my opinion, it attracts a quality, kind of fit. I like to think that's the method.

Speaker 2: 20:03

So I think that resonates with me and Steve wanted to go. Alex asked exactly where I was headed with this because we've been talking about it a lot lately but tying both of what Steve and Matt just said. We've had a lot of voices that have been the voice of the industry and I don't think that for the longest time it was really representational of the people that power, our industry and the hearts and minds that are out there. And so I think, by changing up who we escalate and elevate to speak and giving new voices and smart voices and talented voices that confidence to be able to speak and to be on stage and be present. I think that's really important, and so I feel like what you're doing with this keystone is giving not only a new generation but an existing generation that was there that maybe had been nervous, scared again, lack the confidence, just felt like maybe their opinion was only relevant to their small network or their small subset of people or their market. I love to see all the new people that have come out of keystone with the strength and the will and Steve, you said it, I think it's not just confidence but it's courage, because a lot of it is courage to stand up to some of the voices that have been contrarian and not wanting to look at the industry as a whole and elevate, and so I think, for me, I look at keystone and what you're doing is it's bringing us these people that they've been there all this time, and my favorite example is, of course, lauren Madewell. She's someone who has so much to offer and had just been out there doing her own thing and she found her stride and her voice and found her style and she has really been a game changer. And I think that, as long as we continue to nurture those spirits and those minds and souls and hearts, this, I, it, just it gives me a warm fuzzy about where the industry can be a year from now from where we were 18 months ago.

Speaker 1: 21:54

Annie really needs to go to one of these. They did invite me.

Speaker 2: 21:58

I couldn't go, I couldn't go, but yeah, so anyway, I want to thank you because I personally have experienced both sides of the equation in the last year and I'm a wear my heart on my sleeve and I love to see. I love to see new, passionate people step forward and take their rightful place as part of the conversation.

Speaker 5: 22:18

Yeah, when it comes to just to these people and the courage, I think that often going from talking to a few people in your company to suddenly going on stage in front of hundreds of people is a really big step. And having that iteration of being able to speak to a small group of strangers, hearing that your voice has value, that your ideas have merit, having them inspire you, talking to the next size up and having that sort of confidence building, that that stack of successes that build confidence over time, is a big part of this. And a lot of these voices haven't had an opportunity to speak to anybody outside their company for a long time ever because we're siloed. Having a group of these cohorts where these voices you can hear the voices being elevated. There's a. At the last one there was a young woman. She was, I believe she was, 19 years old and she had these fantastic ideas and it was fun to watch her voice starting to be elevated in this group of 20 people 22 people I think that cohort was, and the fact that her ideas had merit she started. People who had been in industry for 15, 20 years got quiet when she spoke and I think that's how you that's the sparks of industry thought leaders, Industry thought leaders, and I think that's something that the methodology lends itself to.

Speaker 2: 23:54

Powerful.

Speaker 4: 23:56

I would go. I would add that even if someone doesn't have an interest in becoming an industry thought leader or speaking on stage because a lot of people don't have that ambition it is being clearer and more confident about yourself and what you think and what you like and why that matters, in the face of other people telling you that's not or that's not going to work. That's the real core magic here and I think people now we've started to have people send other employees from their teams it's because that individual is suddenly a more valuable player on the team. The company is suddenly more valuable because they're thinking in these new innovations, innovative ways, so really just refracts in all directions.

Speaker 5: 24:50

Yeah, how are you going to lead anybody if you don't know who you are, if you don't know what you want, if you don't know what your values are, what's acceptable and what's not?

Speaker 1: 24:57

Yeah, I think it's important to touch on too before we wrap up. The experience that you create at these events is world class. You've had them at very unique farms and just big plantation like resorts that are lodging accommodations with these facilities, but you have chefs that come in. Everything that, the details are incredible. Kelsey that manages this does a phenomenal job, but tell us a little bit about that the site selection, how the chef, how the food, how all that plays into why this is so magical.

Speaker 5: 25:35

Matt had a really specific vision when it came to what the site needed to look like. I think that vision was right on point. Make sure this was done around a vacation rental, not around a hotel. Places with a lot of nature, a lot of outside area to get away to ideas and relationships, get time to germinate the science of eating together the oxytocins and they're released in your brain and all that happened. But not just eating just any old food, but bringing in, quite honestly, celebrity chefs that were. The eating itself becomes an experience, builds all these relationships and builds the environment to have something pretty meaningful and you're going to somewhere where you don't feel the heart of hospitality, the true, genuine, legendary feelings that somebody wants you there, that you're seen, that you're welcomed. It isn't going to create the type of environment where you're going to feel like you're safe and opened up. Making sure that you feel special and welcomed and seen is one of the first steps of shaping an environment where people can get real with themselves and with each other. Matt do you?

Speaker 4: 26:51

want to. Also, since all of our listeners are managers, I will share that. It's incredibly hard to find the right property that fits all of our needs, so we need it to be within reasonable driving distance of an airport. We need to have up to 20 individual bedrooms with their own bathrooms. We need to have enough common space, not a hotel that actually starts limiting your options really quickly and in terms of demand. We started almost immediately exploring what it could look like to build the perfect retreat center, purely because we have found pain in trying to find that right property. But I do think, as operators, it's worth listening to considering these traveler, these guest needs, which is people want to connect, they want to have nature, they want to be in person with people they care about. Like this stuff we already know, but clearly there's a built-up demand for it.

Speaker 1: 28:02

Yeah, it's about connecting the dots. That's one of the things we speak about on this show very often. But, guys, it's about time to wrap up. We appreciate you coming on and sharing a little bit more, just directly, about this whole experience. There's a lot of people that are very interested in it but don't totally know exactly what it is, so hopefully this gave a little bit better picture. But if anybody wants to learn more about Keystone Retreats, what's the best way for them to reach out or website they can go to?

Speaker 4: 28:30

So we are going to be releasing the 2024 Keystone schedule in the coming months. We're going to have things planned far enough in advance so that all of our buddies can schedule it properly. That will be available in a couple months, but if, in the meantime, you would like to learn a little bit more, the website is keystoneeventsco. Is that right, steve? And you can email, obviously, either one of us. We'd like to share a little bit about the vision of each event and see if you're the right fit. Almost always people who are attracted to these kinds of things. It ends up being a really nice balance. Yeah, awesome.

Speaker 1: 29:18

Thank you guys. If anybody wants to get in touch with Annie and I, you can go to alexandannipodcastcom and in the meantime, thank you for tuning in and we'll see you next week.