Jen Ford’s Journey to Creating Work-Life Balance through Meaningful Career Choices

Alex Husner  0:02  
Welcome to Alex and Annie the real limit of vacation rentals. I'm Alex. And I'm Annie. And we are joined today with a repeat guest of the show and a dear friend of Indianized. Gen. Ford, welcome back. Thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here. 

Annie Holcombe  0:16  
Well, Jen, it's been two years and that a lot has gone on. But I think we want to just kind of revisit who you are, and your background in the vacation rental and short term, I guess, all of the travel industry sounds good. 

Jen Ford  0:28  
Well, I have been in the vacation rental industry since 2011. Prior to that, I was in high tech. So I spent many years working in high tech mostly as a finance executive. And then I found this little company called HomeAway, and joined in 2011. And had a wonderful experience there learned a lot about vacation rentals, I thought I really knew a lot. But then I joined a company called turnkey vacation rentals. And I realized I still had a lot more to learn as a property manager. And so spent about four years with the company as their Chief, Commercial Officer and CFO, and was there in the very early stages when they were successful startup through the pandemic. And then also, during the acquisition by Vacasa, after they were acquired, I stayed on for the integration and then decided to take some time off sort of recharge, and set off on what I would call phase two of my career 

Alex Husner  1:19  
when we interviewed you, you were in that phase. So you were you know, assessing where your next steps were going to be. And I love that episode, because you talked us through kind of a much more in detail overview of the places that you just named that you were at, in addition to some jobs that you've had that have been completely outside the travel industry, I think there was one that was a was an organic food concept. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And just some really great lessons that you took with you. And the one thing that struck me from that episode that I was thinking about when I think of you is just how mindful you are of these different experiences that you've had and what you've taken from each one that has kind of made you understand how you connect the dots, which we obviously talk about that quite a bit on the show, but curious to bring us bring us back to that time period when you left, because you are now trying to determine what was going to be the next steps in your career. How did you navigate through that time, and I say that as in, I'm very eager to learn from you. Because that is essentially where I am at this point in my career. Having just left Costco for to do my own thing at this point. And I'm just curious what you went through and what where your mind was, and how you have navigated to where you are now. 

Jen Ford  2:38  
Yeah, well, I think it's important to know a little bit about me. And I would say up to that point in my life. A lot of my day to day revolved around my work. And my identity was very tied to my work and my title. And the year before I met with you, so essentially 2021 was a really challenging year. For me, it was very intense, not only because we were going what we were growing really rapidly, we all remember what 2020 of them was like for the vacation rental industry. And so business was very good. But we were also going through an acquisition. And then on a personal level, my dad was very sick. And I live very far away from my parents. And so I was having to deal with that remotely. And my daughter was also diagnosed with type one diabetes. And one of my siblings was really struggling with mental health issues. And so I just had a lot going on. And so when I left the company, I wanted to give myself some time and space to just kind of be and to kind of catch up on all the things that that I needed to do to take care of myself. Before I jumped into my next professional endeavor. I also wanted to be really intentional about what that looked like going forward from a professional standpoint, you know, I had sometimes fallen into opportunities, meaning I didn't necessarily seek them out, they found me and it was a great opportunity. And I was glad to get on that rocket ship. And I had a great time. But again, going back to one of my original comments about my identity being tied to my title, I knew that wasn't like a long term plan. We're all going to retire at some point I had started to forget, like who Jen was without work. And I wasn't doing the things that filled my cup for me started a journey to figure out like, where do I take things? And how do I really change the balance in my life. And so I'm happy to say that two years later, I've done a lot of work on that. My life looks a lot different. And I'm a much more balanced whole person who also does some really interesting and meaningful work. It's a very different kind of place than where I was five years ago, and I feel much better about where I am. And I'm really excited about the future and the potential opportunities in front of me. 

Annie Holcombe  4:49  
Do you think that choosing the mindful approach? I would say yes, you're gonna say yes, but choosing the mindful approach has given you more peace with the things that you can do and that you cannot do. I think one of the things as women that Are women are challenged with is trying to do it all. And if you're a very much identified by your work and you have children, sometimes you lose sight of the things that are important and you find guilt when you don't rise to the occasion, whether it be as the wife, the mother or the worker, do you find now that because you can choose to do the things that fill your cup, that you are gonna be in an easier place that you when you say no, or you can't do something you really you're like, it's okay. It's not meant to be. 

Jen Ford  5:27  
Yeah, I mean, I think I've really try not to have mom guilt, I know that it's easy to fall into the trap, but I just don't find it productive. However, what I have suffered from is sacrificing myself and putting myself last, right. So I needed to take care of my family, first and foremost, and then my work. And the way I would do that was sometimes to work till you know any hour of the night to get things done. And I would overextend myself, and I wasn't really taking good care of myself. And so, you know, one of the things I've done in the last two years is really reprioritize that. And you know, I'm at a point where I can say that I get eight hours of sleep a night, that is something I had not done in a very long time, I block most mornings from eight to 10. So that I have time for myself, usually I work out but sometimes I'll meet a friend for coffee or go to a professional development event or something like that. But I blocked that time. And I don't work during that time. I'm also much more present and available to my family because I am working less. But also because I'm doing a different type of work that has different demands on me, I'm not embarrassed to admit, this is my story, right? I am really proud of the upcoming trends I've had in the past. But I was the person sitting at the dinner table who was physically present but was not mentally present, my brain was still solving word problems or thinking about, you know, the five things I need to get done after dinner it was over. And that was just the world I was living in. And again, I'm not sure that I would change it. Again, I'm really proud of what I've done. I just knew I didn't want that to be the way it was forever. And so I made a very individual choice to make some changes professionally, that would make more room for other things. In my life. As I mentioned, my daughter was diagnosed with type one diabetes, which is an autoimmune disease where the body attacks the pancreas and it stops producing insulin. And insulin is required for life. Because her pancreas doesn't produce insulin, she needs to take insulin multiple times a day, to regulate her blood sugar. And, you know, that was a pretty shocking diagnosis, we didn't really know anyone very well who had to deal with this. And so we had a lot of learning to do. And there were a lot of sleepless nights trying to figure out if she was in range and to make sure she was safe. It can it can be fatal if it's not handled correctly. And so, you know, it's a really serious condition. And it's something that's 24/7. And so, you know, again, taking a little bit different approach with my work life has allowed me to have more time to spend with her and to be at all the doctor's appointments and to really, you know, be a support system to her when she needs it. And she's been amazing, you know, kids are so resilient. She, you know, while we were in the hospital, she wanted to start giving herself injections, she was 11 years old at the time, right, she wanted to try it and give it a go. And she's learned a lot. And she actually has really kind of risen above it to take some of the control away from the disease by becoming an advocate for other people with diabetes, and, you know, helping improve their lives through advocacy. And, and so, you know, I think that's just been amazing to be able to be part of that with her and to have like, such a rich, meaningful experience together. And so that's been a big part of my life, right. And so I'm, I'm listing off all the things that I've been doing, you haven't really heard me talk about work yet. And again, this is a big shift that has happened for me is that there are other things at the forefront. And again, this is where I would say I'm much more a whole person than I was five years ago, and I feel really good about that. But I am actually doing some really, really fun things from a work perspective, too. And I know we'll talk about that as well. 

Alex Husner  9:06  
Yeah, oh my gosh, there's so much to unpack and everything. Yeah. And I, I see myself in so many things that you mentioned. And I think you know, growing up in business 13 years with one company when I was there, I could never imagine one not being there or two, you know, where else would I ever want to work and not that my title was important, but work was so important to me and work is still important to me but I think it is definitely a mind shift of right now. You know, I I am evaluating my next steps and so I don't have a title right now. I don't have a quote unquote job right now. It's a weird thing to think about. And something that I just I always thought I would continue to work for a company you know, years ago I just felt that would always be my path. But you know now as I start navigating this transition, I feel more like where you're you're probably at now have there's just there's a lot of opportunities when you're able to kind of dictate your day and choose what is the time that you want to spend on things. And I think the time that you've obviously gotten to spend with your family and with your daughters and supporting her, and I mean to be 14 and go into DC and doing advocacy work is pretty unreal. I think we might want to have her on the podcast at some point. Really. That's, that's incredible. And, you know, another similarity that I learned as before we hit record, your husband also is is a consultant. And so you're both kind of going down that lane together. But I'm curious, he had been doing this longer than you had. What was his support? Like in that process? And you know, how important was he to giving you that confidence and courage to go down this lane versus just going back into a corporate America job? 

Jen Ford  10:49  
That's a good question. And he's been doing it for over 10 years on his own, he actually decided to start consulting when we had young kids and we both had really demanding careers, we both had global teams. And there was just no slack in the system at home. And we knew something had to change. And he said, Well, you know, I want to be there to coach soccer, I want to take them to their doctor's appointments. So I'll do it. And I was like, great, because I want to lean into my career. And so it was wonderful, because he was able to work a little bit less by controlling his consulting schedule, and to support me when my career was really taking off. So I am forever grateful for him for allowing me to do that. But we also learned a lot for him of going through the process. And one thing was that when you leave a full time job where everyone knows you and you're really well respected, there's a transition, you have to adjust to this new life or, you know, your validation comes in different ways. And so I think that was an adjustment he had to go through. And so I knew that going into this that I was, again, especially because I admittedly, like I was very proud of my title, I felt really good that I had made it to the C suite. And it was something that was important to me, because it was a goal that I had. And so there was an adjustment for me too. And then I think, you know, over the the 10 or more years that he's been consultant, there's been many times where we've thought about, like, Should you go back to a full time or should you say, in this consulting role, and even after, you know, opportunity, after opportunity, for full time work would come along, we always came to the conclusion that from a lifestyle perspective, consulting work was great for us as a family. And for him personally, I mean, he loves that he can go work out every afternoon at three. That's like key to his happiness. And so I think part of it is just really knowing who you are, and what's important. And that was something that really mattered to him, you know, when I left kind of the full time world, and it just honestly, the first few months, I just took a break and was just like, sleeping and reading books and really trying to do yourself yeah, to do nothing, right. You know, I was trying to figure out where I would go next professionally. And I was working with a life coach, which I recommend, she was kind of like an executive coach and part therapist, and it was great, we worked through a lot of things, including identifying all of my values, and what you know, my kind of career decision framework should look like. And really helped me see kind of how I wanted to impact others and where I wanted my legacy to be professionally. So that was a great process to go to it. It helped giving me kind of a Northstar. But what happened is I started getting lots of calls from from recruiters and companies. And, you know, the truth is I had FOMO, right, I didn't want to miss like something great. And I did have some conversations initially with companies for some really great roles. And I just knew, and I could feel it in my gut that it, it just wasn't the right time. And I wasn't ready to fully commit myself to a C level role. I just didn't have the energy and the commitment that was needed to really, you know, serve a company and the employees and the shareholders in that way. And so I actually ended up stopping any kind of incoming recruiting calls because I felt like it was a distraction away from what I knew I needed to pursue. But I had lots of investors introducing me to their founders and CEOs. And so I met a founder who I really, really connected with and, you know, of course, he said, Hey, I want to I want to hire you, I want you to be my COO and I said, I really don't want to work for you or anybody for that matter. Come on as a as an advisor. And that really was kind of the starting point for me, where I was able to start navigating my way down this journey. And so in a little bit of a way like I you know, it was like a test and so I worked with that company for several months before I really decided whether or not I wanted to jump in with anything else. And you know, I think back to my husband when I talked about like, do I do full time do I do consulting, we had some practical things to work through, right like how do we make sure we have health insurance and all of that. We had to like, you know, come up with solutions for all of those things. But I think it was even more than that was, you know, once I jumped into saying, Okay, I'm going to do this, and I'm going to give it a go. I think he was really my cheerleader of like, know your value, wait for the right clients don't just take any client comes along. And I will say, like, you know, in the consulting world, there are it's kind of feast or famine, I find is like, there are times when you're very high demand, and then there are times when you may not be in as high of demand. And you really have to believe and hold out that that high demand phase is going to come back again. And I think, my biggest champion, knowing that like No, no, wait for the right role. But I think it's really know like, what your niches and what you're good at and find the clients that value that because that's where you're going to have the greatest impact. And so when I talked to him about potential clients and proposals, you know, he was he was really quick to say, I don't think you really want to do that. And so really great to have his support during those times when I was trying to figure out like, what is that, you know, right cadence of bringing on clients and, and kind of waiting for the right ones to come along. 

Alex Husner  16:06  
You mentioned an advisor role what what does that look like in comparison to a traditional consulting role? 

Jen Ford  16:12  
Good question. I would say like, the vast majority of my clients are founders or founder led companies that have been successful startups and are ready to scale up. And so I come in, and I essentially become an extension of the leadership team. And I'm part of the team but on a very part time basis. And so I will come in and help assess the status, like where the company is at what their current status is, and understand from the founder and their team where they're trying to go. And then I help them chart that path. And so it looks a little bit different for every company, I'm actually not a big believer in playbooks, I think every company is different. Every founder, every team is different. And so I like to meet the company where they're at. And then I help them determine kind of what they're missing and help them build out the toolbox to help accelerate success. So like I said, it looks different at every company. But we focus a lot on things like financial literacy, and making sure you have a financial model that shows not only where you're at today, but where it is you want to go to talk a lot about metrics and how you have the right cadence of identifying what the targets are for those metrics, measuring them, and then meeting regularly to talk about those metrics and take action if they're not where you want them to be making sure you have a very solid understanding of who your customer is, and then a sales and marketing plan that supports that. So those are a lot of the things that I do with them. And I would say what's different than a traditional consultant in my mind is that one, I'm not using a specific playbook. I do use frameworks. But I think those give you more latitude than a playbook does. I also will do some of the heavy lifting. I don't like to come in and just talk at people that is particularly overwhelming, even if it's really great advice. And so I will roll up my sleeves and work with you to help you build the tools that you need in your business. And in I'm part of the team man, I think you know, it's it's temporary Of course, and I am independent, but I really am part of the team. I work with companies that I think are doing exciting things that have great ideas and a really great vision and I just helped them again, accelerate that path to success.

Unknown Speaker  18:25  
Attention property owners and hosts. If you want to keep those five star cleanliness rating soaring and your guests smiling, listen up. Introducing turnover your ultimate solution for simplifying and automating the entire cleaning management process. Say goodbye to the hassle and hello to high quality, timely turnovers that guarantee those top rated guest reviews. With turnover you can automatically schedule, manage and pay your short term rental cleaners ensuring a seamless and efficient operation. And here's the best part. Turner's clear marketplace boasts over 55,000 vetted short term rental cleaning pros ready to elevate your property management game. Turner lets you manage cleaner performance with features like auto scheduling sync directly to your booking calendar, auto payments, photo checklists, problem reporting, and even inventory management. But that's not all. Keep your cleaner communications organized with centralized chat and photo sharing, all in one convenient place. Plus they've made on the go management a breeze with separate mobile apps tailored for both hosts and cleaners. And just in case you need a lifeline turn us live 24/7 Customer Support is always at your service. Because at Toronto, they're not just a platform. They're your partner in success. And there's a special treat for the listeners of Alex in any podcast. When you try Toronto and it's cleaner marketplace. You'll receive $150 amazon gift card exclusively as our thank you to you. So here's how it works. New users can sign up at turbo.com/alex Nanny podcast, search for a cleaner in your area connect with one or more and then complete a marketplace cleaning. Once you see how easy and simple cleaning management can be. You'll

Unknown Speaker  20:00  
Love how much time and money you save, not to mention no more cleaning headaches. Now back to the show. 

Annie Holcombe  20:05  
So what does that look like for you? When you're selecting a company or deciding to work with a company? Is there a specific longevity that a company's had? Are they? Are you looking for someone who's just starting out? Or do they need to have kind of the basic framework to have their business be on a path to success? What does that look like for you? 

Jen Ford  20:22  
Well, this is where I would, I'll take something from you guys. And I would say I had an aha moment. Because when I first started doing this, my first client was already a kind of a larger company, they were over $50 million dollars in revenue. And that's kind of the size of company that would typically hire someone like me, it wouldn't be appropriate for an early stage company to hire me, I'm not the right person, I don't necessarily have the right skill set. Most of my experience is actually with larger companies, right? Not big, huge companies, but you know, over kind of 50 million in revenue. And my aha moment was, there was a company actually a company called cam monkey that is earlier stage, I thought that the business was great. And I was really attracted to how CEO uses LinkedIn, and just how charismatic he is and how great he is. And so I wanted to start working with them. But they're much smaller than my typical client. And as I started working with them, I realized that they're the perfect kind of company to work with, because they wouldn't hire me. That's why the consultant part of it's so great because basis, they can leverage all the experience I have, I've kind of been there done that, because where I've been is where they want to go, right. And so when my aha moment was that actually working with the smaller companies is probably a bigger impact. If I go into the larger companies, I have to like undo before I start helping them, right. So the change feels more incremental and not as impactful. When I can go into a really early stage company, especially one that doesn't have someone with a similar skill set to me, I actually have immediate impact. And I think, even more for the company. So that was a big aha moment for me, in my advisory work is I was actually staying away from early stage thinking, you know, I haven't worked at one of these earlier stage companies, but that that actually was not the right way to think about it. And so now I am starting to work with much younger and earlier stage companies, which I think helps them avoid some of the mistakes that you tend to make way. Yeah, absolutely. It's about avoiding the dummy tax. We've all we've all paid it 

Alex Husner  22:28  
Yeah. And it's like, you know, looking at I mean, whether it's a life coach, a business coach, or in this case, you as an advisor, you're bringing them knowledge that yeah, they might not be able to hire somebody a full time like you. But it's like a hired gun. You know, there's so many benefits to being able to tap, you know, your vast knowledge and experience, but you touched on and we want to make sure we highlight this because we're super excited. And when I saw this on LinkedIn, that it was an aha moment. For me. I'm like, Oh, my gosh, this is so great. But you are working with Ken monkey. And Alex Shapiro and his team would love just to hear more about what's going on with Cam monkey. We had Alex on the show last year, and would echo your your thoughts 100% that he's a great leader. And just very inspirational. We actually called him the spirit animal of the Alex Danny podcast, because he always seems to know, things going on in our lives and in the show before they even happen, somehow. But tell us a little bit about Ken monkey and what you're doing for them. 

Jen Ford  23:25  
Yeah, well, you know, before I knew about cam monkey, I knew about how difficult taking the trash in and out could be. Turnkey, right? So I, manager perspective, I know the frustration and just the difficulty of the logistics of all of that. And so it was a problem that I understood very well. And then I stumbled across Alex's profile on LinkedIn. And you know, we must have been running in the same circle, and somebody was liking his posts. And I was kind of just watching them from afar. And I was really impressed with his presence on LinkedIn, and his persistence, frankly, and just how scrappy the team is. So Alex and I started getting to know each other, and we just kept in touch. And you know, this is over a period of many months. And I think they were at the right kind of size and stage where they thought it was time to bring in somebody with a skill set very similar to mine around execution, and finance expertise, and all of that. And so we started talking about potentially working together. And so I think it was in December, I came on as an advisor. And of course, you know, I love the story of Mark and Alex and how they started the company. But I also just really believe in how big this business can be. And the use case so I already said I know the use case for property managers, right, but I'm also a second homeowner and every time I leave my house, I'm like, crap, who's going to take out the trash and I'm texting my neighbors once again to take out my trash. I don't want to ask them one more time to take out the trash. You know, there needs to be somebody to do that and there There is no monkey. And then the third use case that really resonates with me is that I have elderly parents, and they live in Wisconsin, and they have a very steep driveway. And the last thing I need is my mother taking, you know, 80 year old mother taking the trash down when it's icy out, right. And so the idea of being able to have a service that can come every week, and take the trash to the curb, and then come back the next day and take it back up to the garage. I know, it's so simple and straightforward, but I think it's fabulous. And it's so I really feel a connection to what they're doing and believe in it. And I think that the way they've started the business, focusing on vacation rentals is super smart in terms of kind of establishing density and starting to scale the business. But I think it's much, much bigger, if you think about all of the other homeowners in the country who might need help with their trash, right? If you travel a lot for work, if you're disabled, if you're elderly, if it's a second home, there's just so many more people who can benefit this. So I think there's some real opportunity there. But anyway, I am excited about the business. And I think the team is fantastic. They have a small but mighty team, and they're really great group of people. And they've been growing like crazy, you know, I think they're approaching around 5000 properties right now, where they have subscription cancer services, I'm, you know, kind of coming in as like the third leg on the stool, you know, you've got Mark and Alex, the co founders and just trying to be sort of like that additional voice in the room when we're making decisions about strategy and customer acquisition and new markets and how to approach those things. And, you know, the beauty of it is I've done a lot of those things before, and have learned a lot from my experiences. And I think kind of with my input, I think that mark and Alex feel like they have, you know, just, I think, another rational person to use as a sounding board and to help them in their decision making process. I've also helped them with some of the tools we talked about earlier, right, just making sure they have a really solid financial model that helps them understand what it's going to take to get to the type of business that they want to be. So you know, they have big growth aspirations. And so I just helped them break that down into something that was very digestible for themselves and the team. So they understand exactly what their levers are, that they can pull in the business to grow. And so that they can set targets for everybody on the team, it's very clear to them, you know, how many new properties they need to bring on every month, and what kind of retention rate they need to be shooting for. And you know, all of the other things that impact your your business. And so we've worked through that. And I think that it's, you know, I think they had a great business before, but I think they are much more data driven now. And I think they feel like they have a whole lot more control over their destiny, because they understand exactly what is going to take to get where they want to go. And I think like with all my clients, like, I don't come in telling you where you should go, I want my clients to tell me, I want those founders to tell me what it is they want for their business. And then I help them create the path to get there. We look at where they are today. And then we chart that path and we talk about what's it going to take? And are we ready to do it and do we have the resources in place, and I help them go through that planning process. And then once we're on that path, I really help them measure their performance against that plan, and help them adjust when they need to. So you know, I think that's one of the ways I've helped can monkey and work with them. But it's something that I've been doing now with clients for almost two years. And I think, again, it's really valuable to founders who tend to be very different than me, I'm very disciplined. I'm very goal oriented. I'm very focused and driven. And what we all love about founders is they're very visionary. And they're all over the place. And they have all of these wonderful, great ideas. I'm the kind of person who can help them prioritize and decide which of those ideas to go after. And I've helped them keep focused on things. So that's what I'm doing with Kim monkey, but also with many of my other clients. 

Alex Husner  29:01  
It's almost like you have to harness all that creative energy and be able to put the legs behind it to fuel that growth. But most importantly, it got you back into the vacation rental industry so selfishly, that made me say,

Jen Ford  29:15  
you know, and it's wonderful to be back. And I mean, honestly, I needed a little break as everyone knows who's listening to this podcast, it's very hard. And you know, as I like to say it's always 10 o'clock on a Saturday night when someone tries to check in with their pet monkey, you know, and sure of it is very demanding. And so it was nice to have a break but of course I miss it because I think it is just such a fantastic industry. And I always it gave me great purpose to go to work at turnkey and even at home away knowing that we were helping people take vacations of their lifetime and spend precious time with loved ones and family and friends. And so I think you know, that's a really, really

Annie Holcombe  30:00  
we've talked to a lot of people that have left the business and come back. And that's kind of like the one thing that is a commonality with vacation rentals is everybody feels very passionate about like, what the mission that we're on. And again, it's facilitating dreams. It's facilitating first. Sometimes it's facilitating last, we're involved in so many core memories for families and kids and ethnic couples and everybody in between. So I think people try to get away from it, and they just get drawn back into it. So to have you and your energy back in the business is great for all of us can monkey is so fortunate to have you. But I had a question related to kind of this fractional you sweet operation, that how do you find a balance in it? Because I think, again, you talked about it's a feast or famine, you can have too many you can have not have enough? How do you structure it for yourself in a way that you could give all that you can give to that particular organization, but still have enough leftover to give two or three more, and I don't know how many you take. So kind of trying to understand what the fractional actually looks like is practice. 

Jen Ford  31:00  
Well, this is where like, if I tell my clients to know their customer, I need to know my customer, too, right? I think it's very important as a consultant or advisor, or fractional to understand like, what it is, you're really good at what your superpowers are. And so for me, it's all about execution, I like to help companies execute better, and I think be very selective with your clients. I only work with clients whose need matches my skill set, right? I don't try to overextend myself, if you need someone to like restate your books, or clean up your accounting, I'm not the right person for that there's other people who are much better suited to that, you know, I know that I work best with founders, I focus on execution, I definitely come at it with a very financial mindset. But it's much more about how do we get stuff done? How do we execute at a very high level. So I find clients who are in need of that thing, and who have recognized that they need that thing I meet a lot more people than I end up working with. And you know, we can't say yes to everything. And so I think as a fractional, you have to really know what that sweet spot is, and stay true to it. And, again, that's why I was saying My husband was so good, because there's been a couple of times where I've been tempted and you know, he said, Do you really want to do that? And if the answer is not yes, then then I don't I don't do it. I'm happy to refer the client to someone else. I do. Make sure that and then I think the other thing is you've got to properly scope, the engagement. And so I think the more clear you are on what exactly the scope is about what you're there to do, if there's any deliverables you have, I think the more specific you can be the better. So you can avoid any kind of confusion, the way I manage my time is that I a year in advance, I plan how many hours I'm going to have available each month. And this means for me less less than 40 hours a week, right? Because I'm trying to have a more balanced life. And then I essentially capacity plan. So when I sign on a client, I usually ask them to commit to a certain number of hours per month. And that allows me to make sure that I never kind of overdo it. And I always have enough hours for my existing client set, which you know, can range anywhere from three to five clients at any one time. And so, you know, I definitely manage that closely. Because I want clients to feel like I'm accessible within reason, right? I only want to work 30 hours a week, or whatever the case may be. And so that's how I manage that

Alex Husner  33:18  
you said lifestyle earlier. And I spoke to somebody yesterday that said, you know, you need to be thinking about this as a lifestyle business, how many hours is it that you're kind of you know, striving to work work, I mean, are you trying to still want to travel, I mean, really think about the things that are important to you and this and kind of work backwards from that to find the clients that are gonna fit and align with, obviously, the skill sets and the things that you bring to the table. But I have a lot to learn from you. So I'm super excited that we've reconnected and I think you're just a wealth of information and also an inspiration to people that when we were at the Women's Conference, this was actually a pretty big topic of it was very much kind of, you know, the world has changed. But it's the mindset is, you know, you don't work doesn't have to mean a W two jobs a million ways to make money, you know, you just have to find the way that makes sense to you, and it's fulfilling to you. But I think the ability for people to do fractional work is obviously something that's certainly on the rise. And especially when you've been in this industry for so long and has had the experience like, like you do, it's you're really bringing a gift to these companies that you get to work with that wouldn't be able to probably afford you as a full time position. 

Jen Ford  34:24  
So it's true, it's a gift to me, because I get to focus on doing the things I do really well and enjoy. And I get to do it across many different companies. And so it's fun for me, I get to work with great people, and we choose to work with each other. And I learned different industries. So, you know, I think it's a win win. I really do. And it's been a great experience for me. And I think, you know, my plan is to do this for the foreseeable future. We've got four years until our kids are out of the house and my husband and I have talked about potentially, you know, kind of being a little bit more nomadic and so maybe we're both going to keep consulting and we'll be able To do that from almost anywhere with the way the world works, now, that's an exciting prospect. And the other thing that could happen is I need a founder, and a team and a product or service that I really feel strongly about, you know, the founder is kind of ready to step aside from running the business day to day, but wants to stay on a strategic Cassidy, like, I'd love to come in and run the company, right. So like that could be a potential path to beauty is I don't need to decide what I'm doing right now really works for myself and my family. And I think it's really helping a lot of founders out there. So, again, I feel like it's an all around win. And I'm really excited about what I'm doing. 

Annie Holcombe  35:38  
It's great. Just being able to again, go back to being mindful and purposeful about the choices that you make and taking care of the family that you know, your kids grow up so quickly. I mean, that's one thing that I learned is just my son's 23. And it went from he was 15, to 23, like in the blink of an eye. And I just think about all the time that I did spend working and it's like, that's just time you can't ever get back with your family and your children. So I applaud you for taking that step back and recognizing that it's important to take care of you. And then take care of those around you to make sure that you're a whole giving person for all the rest of the parts of your life that you're exploring. Well, thank you. And yes, I mean, it feels good to feel like a whole human being again.

Alex Husner  36:22  
Well, hopefully we don't have to wait another full two years to have you back for an update. I think would, we'd like to certainly have you back sooner than that. But it was so good to see your name pop back up when I saw the can monkey thing. And there's no coincidences. So it's great to be talking to you in this new phase of my life as well. But we appreciate you so much. You do.

Jen Ford  36:43  
Exciting them. And I hope that this isn't the last time you hear my name pop up in the industry. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. It won't be Yeah, yeah. It was going to make sure that you start coming back to the conferences too. So so we get to see you. Right. I do need to start doing that. Well, I look forward to seeing both of you in person sometime in 2024. Absolutely. I think a plan Jen. If anybody wants to get in touch with you. What's the easiest way for them to reach out LinkedIn is probably the best way I'm very active on LinkedIn or they can email me at extend partners. consulting@gmail.com Well, thank you everybody for listening. If you want to get in touch with Annie and I you can go to Alex and Annie podcast.com And until next time, we'll see you soon.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai