Nocturne Villas: Raising the Bar in the Multi-Market Luxury Segment, with Scott Wiseman

Alex Husner  0:02  
Welcome to Alex nanny the element of vacation rentals. I'm Alex. 

Annie Holcombe  0:06  
And I'm Annie 

Alex Husner  0:07  
and we are joined today with Scott Wiseman, who is the CEO of Nocturne, luxury villas, Scott, it's so good to see you the

Scott Wiseman  0:14  
same. Thanks for having me. I feel really honored to join you ladies today. So excited.

Annie Holcombe  0:20  
Well, Scott, I know I met you. I think for the first time at a industry conference, I think it was the track conference in Minneapolis a couple years ago. And I remember you saying that you listen to our podcast when Julie from Cabo villas had had introduced us. And I thought there is absolutely no way that I remember grilling you about it. And you're like, No, I absolutely. Listen to you guys. So this has been a really long dream of mine to like, have you on the show and grill you about what you know about our show, but I won't do that today. But before we get started, can you introduce yourself to our listeners and let them know about your journey to where you are today? Absolutely.

Scott Wiseman  0:54  
My journey started at 15 years old. And when my parents took us away on one of only two vacations our entire childhood, they were really mean and went away a lot on their own. So but ended up in Acapulco when I was 15 at a resort and I literally came home from that trip based on a lot of different reasons. One was that I forged my dad's signature on the bar bill at 15 for all the other teenagers that were there visiting. And I'm like, this is the best thing I've ever seen in my life. So I came home from that and said that I'm going to school to you know, figure out hospitality and hotel management. And that's exactly what I did. So I went into Penn State's Hotel School right after high school. And from there started on the hotel side when I came out and worked in all levels in hotels and brands along the way. And then I had an opportunity to jump and lead a luxury tour operator, Abercrombie and Kent and spent many years there leading the North America division and then found my way to other luxury tour operators and ended up with a company called Apple Leisure Group. And that was growing all inclusive and a lot of Mexico and Caribbean destinations and left there to join Nocturne, which has been the best move I've ever made. It's such a perfect mix of the luxury space. I've been in and running different organizations and also building a culture where you're acquiring companies along the way and kind of building something, but still paying, you know, homage to all the companies that you're really leaning on that have the great brand reputation and the amazing team. So I couldn't be happier. It's a year and a half then it feels sometimes long and feel short in other ways, but really excited to be here.

Annie Holcombe  2:46  
That's awesome. I think you've had a long and a very interesting career within traveling and different sides of travel. But I'm curious when you started with Nocturnum and what drew you to them and to the short term rental industry, we

Scott Wiseman  2:59  
dabbled in it in the hotel space and the tour operating space. So I was familiar with it. It was more of considered, you know, bolt on products to what we were already offering. But I was really curious about it. But it goes back to what Nocturne you know was founded on which was staying true to the luxury experience having that curated experience for the guests from the reservation all the way through to the departure on the ground. I'm very familiar with destination management companies through my career in lots of countries and what the difference is when you're not just an aggregator, but you're someone that is putting your own brands forward, standing by no middlemen when things happen along the way. So the fact that that was happening and just came off of an experience, again, building a culture where we were acquiring different brands as well. So I was kind of excited for the same thing. I felt like this was something I could contribute to while learning another facet of the industry that I had a lot of respect for also understanding what it's like to be in the Wild West Frontier stages. It's growing and kind of embracing that. And there are no better people than people that are in hospitality. And this was you know, talking to everyone I felt that it was really strong. So it was just good timing for me from kind of putting it all together where it was in my career and helping you know the business grow.

Annie Holcombe  4:23  
Take us to the beginning of your journey with Nocturne. I have to be honest, like I had not heard much about them but all of a sudden it was like you're everywhere. How many different management groups were part of Nocturne when you joined and where are you at now in terms of what you've acquired? Yeah,

Scott Wiseman  4:38  
so it really Nocturne has been around since 2019, which slowed the immediate growth until 21. But we have added six companies and five destinations. The one that was added while I joined was last summer alone 30 A exclusive 30 A joined the portfolio. The end of August of last The year so yeah, we're growing, we have a pretty big list. I'm hoping in the next six weeks to make another announcement adding to the group and an important destination, which will be exciting. So we continue to grow. And it was done really fast. When I joined, everyone was coming from so many different perspectives. And really, the last year and a half, for me has been kind of harnessing the power with the team and building something that is still a nocturn culture again, while still allowing the brands to do what they need to do and supporting them. It's almost like, even though it isn't a franchise model, because we fully acquired the companies that came along, but it's all about supporting them, you know, we all work for them so that they can provide the best service and have the best tools and have the best resources to continue to do what they're doing. But even better. That's awesome.

Alex Husner  5:48  
So what types of services does Nocturne provide? Like? Are you centralizing the accounting? The marketing? Technology?

Scott Wiseman  5:56  
Yeah. Did you look at my org chart? That's perfect.

Alex Husner  6:00  
Just Just a guess. Yeah,

Scott Wiseman  6:02  
I think the first thing was yes, finances and accounting is a big one. And it's important to know, too, we never rush to do anything, we understand the concept of peak season and offseason. So it's not like we're racing. But we have gotten better about moving things faster. For example, the tech platform, we use track, and every one of our businesses is on that same platform. And that makes a big difference. When you start with that. We're tech enabled, we're not a tech company, but we're using it well enough to be able to assist some of the companies that either were not fully utilizing what they had, or even some come along where they're not even on a tech platform, and can take advantage of that. So it the PMs, CRM systems marketing, for sure, you know, helping with everything from having a CRM, as well as we handle pay per click and SEO management and email marketing, and just kind of bringing that up to the next level. And then we also have sales and revenue optimization and homeowner support as well. We're a small team, you know, when we talk about these teams, sometimes I'm talking about one to five people in those teams at most, just being able to help consolidate Best Practices be really fluid, because we might end up acquiring a company that is doing something better than we even have it and so we'll move and bring them into the fold and, and kind of go from there. So that is the type of support that we're really helping and HR. And for some of the companies too, is the first time they saw a robust, you know, benefit package, which was really exciting to see people's eyes really get happy when they realize wait, how many I get PTO a and there's a health plan and you guys pay a big part of it. So that's really the most exciting part the first time you get to meet with the teams and tell them you know what they've got by joining that turns as

Annie Holcombe  7:57  
well. Yeah, I was in property management back before 2012. And was in a company that acquired companies. And then it was actually started a company that went out and kind of acquired some smaller companies. And it's so different today, what that looks like and in acquiring and like the planning and the support that you can put behind an organization. So I know that going in is always it's you have to ask a lot of questions and be be prepared for the unknown, because every market and every kind of manager operates in a different realm. And I'm curious, because you have picked up very strategic companies around the US and obviously in Mexico, what does it look like to go in? Because you can't have like a cookie cutter plan, especially when it comes to marketing and dealing with owners? Because you're dealing with people in varied territories? How do you put together a plan from the beginning so that you don't want to lose owners? And then obviously, with the staffing, losing staff, like what does that look like for you when you go in? Yeah,

Scott Wiseman  8:56  
and you kind of touched on it, you do have to listen a lot more. And the companies that we've acquired are extremely successful in their own right, and profitable and doing well. So I always tell them, be prepared to be bored about the change right at the start. Because we're not looking to upset the applecart, we do have a lot to learn, we're not in a rush to do that each timeline is different based upon the flow of the business and how how things come together. So we're not looking right off the bat and I use the expression a lot. We're giving you the gift of time, which is the things you need to get adjusted and realize the resources that we have available and we do it in, you know, active and passive ways. You know, we have a lot of team member led committees that make up people from all the different divisions that come together, all the different brands come together and talk about marketing. And so immediately someone in one of the opcodes that we buy might and find themselves contributing at Nocturne level and networking with their peers and that's that's the biggest thing I tell them is look you've been slog Getting away here, doing an amazing job figuring things out on your own. With just your team that you have here, you now have five other companies that are doing the same thing and other markets and people that are doing it as well. And you have an advantage compared to some of your competitors. And that's a powerful resource to take advantage. So we try and get them integrated by getting to know the teams and people that are similar to them. And it's always an effort with the local teams about what comes first. And what we can do to help. So the only thing we've been able to do faster. And the reason it's faster is because it's easier is the integration onto the same PMS system and the finance and IT team take all that on on their end. So all they have to do is basically train on the system to start with versus anything else to make it easy. But yeah, and I don't want to rush and make a judgment and then have to walk it back. You know, my goal is to try and just build on what's already there and get them to share that. So we do have things on a checklist, but the timing is always good.

Alex Husner  10:57  
That's a good framework, but knowing that frameworks can always be adjusted, right?

Scott Wiseman  11:03  
Flexibility is kind of humor, flexibility and coping skills,

Alex Husner  11:09  
and empathy. I mean, that's a big part of it to have, you know, when you do acquire the company, then going in and meeting with their team. And you know, hopefully those different benefits that you're bringing to the table are enough to make them understand this is actually a good thing. But I'm sure that's not always easy, though, right? I mean, sometimes you know that that just makes people nervous when they heard that a business has been sold. But how do you overcome those types of maybe hesitancies. As far as the staff or nervousness, knowing that somebody else is coming in and running the ship, we're lucky

Scott Wiseman  11:38  
to the people that have worked with us in you know, selling their businesses have built great teams, as well, which is obviously why we're attracted to that business and how they handle it is really been key. And you know, many of them will stick around for a period of time after to be part of the transition and help things move forward. So first and foremost is they take keys from their previous owner as to how things go. And if they're happy, they can see that and everyone's being very transparent. We believe in complete transparency all the time, so that everyone's informed and has information, it takes a lot the edge off and by booting them right by saying not everything's changing right away, and getting them involved usually works and the homeowner to write, we have never lost a homeowner due to the business being sold to us period ever. And we credit that to again, good communication and just emphasizing again, that if the team in the local market is still there, we're not making money by consolidating positions and things like that we want to grow and we want to become better. And that's that's the mission. And now we've got a track record of doing it. So when we talk to an owner, we'll put them in touch with the previous owner, that we've acquired their business in the past or talk to other people as well. We want again that to be open. So they feel super comfortable with how it's been handled in the track record strong. So that works to our advantage.

Annie Holcombe  13:05  
That's really good. I don't think there is anyone that I've talked to that could say that they haven't lost an owner through the process. Because I think again, sometimes there's a lack of communication or lack of clarity and communication that occurs through a changeover. But I'm curious, when you do buy a company, does the owner typically stay around as an part of the operation for a certain period of time? Or does it just vary based on what the deal points are? Yeah, it varies

Scott Wiseman  13:32  
for a lot of different reasons. Sometimes the owners will screech on in their car out of the parking lot. Good luck, but always leave us prepared. But a lot want to see the transition and might stick around. Sometimes it's the obey sometimes it will shift into an area where they'll you know, just focus on the homeowner acquisition because they built so much reputation and with you know, homeowner relations and things like that. So they'll kind of pull themselves out of the day to day but keep them focused on things like that. It really depends, but each one has been somewhat uniquely different but all successful just depending on the situation.

Alex Husner  14:10  
Well the timing of this interview is interesting too, because by the time this airs, it'll be two weeks since our episode with Jason sprinkle and Jacoby Olin talking about is it time to sell your business and we did a deep dive with them and they shared with us a lot of great information about you know what you need to be thinking about as you're going through that process as a vacation rental company but then you know what types of KPIs need to be tracking towards and what that the whole flow looks like. But I'm curious from your side what makes a deal attractive to you like what is the ideal type of company that you are looking for that fits well within the mix of Nocturne but something

Scott Wiseman  14:48  
we think about all the time. I mean, there's some technical things I mean, the the quality of the business and the people that are in it, a big part of it, but the locations I mean it's good for us to spread Between drive and fly destinations and, you know, have that kind of mix to spread things out, which we've done pretty well, we obviously focus on particularly domestically, 100% exclusive is so much easier, obviously, St. Barts and Cabo are a little different in markets. But you know, we've been successful in converting a lot in those areas as well. But working in a non exclusive versus exclusive market, our preference is to stay exclusive. And, of course, that the product, you know, we say a minimum of 1000 per night, you know, helps define it, it can be different at different times, and our average is running a little bit higher. But that's usually the entry point for us to do that. And you know, in a destination that kind of maybe sees a lot of growth opportunity ahead of it as well, right, we'd like to find our way to a destination that has a lot of upside as well for us to continue to grow the business. And that could be organically, or it could be through acquisition, as well as we take a look at. And then it's really getting to know the owner, and usually their wishes for the next phase of their business that they created their baby that they walked, you know, got all the way to this point of graduation is well taken care of. And you know, that's our goal, also to be able to do that and move the business forward and lean on the staff that that's been there and kind of having that that type of match. So we spend a lot of time in the, you know, courting phase, and then, you know, we dig in to the things that make them successful, and, you know, look to continue to move those. But yeah, usually it's, it's a pleasant process. Actually, it's been pretty successful. And by the time they did sufficiently happened, you've done most of everything you're supposed to do getting to know each other and knowing how the business is operating. And so it's usually a rah rah celebration of a new anniversary point. But it again, it, it's pretty boring, because business continues as usual. So

Annie Holcombe  16:48  
that's not a problem that you have to worry about IT organizations that you've bought, you alluded to the exclusive 30 day, I worked with them at another company, and very familiar with the owner and very familiar with their product. And so when I heard that you guys were taking them on, I thought that was such a great add, in complement to the other other properties, or Property Groups that you have. I'm curious, like moving forward, you have Mexico and some of the Caribbean, but do you see yourself expanding out into more international markets, it's something

Scott Wiseman  17:18  
we think about for sure we've think about, and we do the same model that we have here in Europe, which can be predominantly a non exclusive market, although that isn't always the case, and how we decide to continue. But we still have a nice list of companies that we're talking to all the time and interested in this getting to know markets and things, you know, here domestically. But we know that down the road that it makes sense for us to look at ways to continue to grow. And actually just going back to, you know, 30 a what, what a great area, I felt so foolish the first time I visited it, because I just underestimated how powerful it was an impactful and I think it was like two weeks later to the article came out in the Wall Street Journal that called it the Hamptons of the South. Yeah, good way to put it. Yeah, it is. So spot on. So we're thrilled with that business. And we're looking to do things, you know, to the next level where we can continue to grow like the, you know, concierge and private services, and really building that out a much, you know, bigger Concierge Team to kind of offer more in that market as well. It seems like it's never going to stop growing. Of course it is. We're trying to figure out, you know, stretching ourselves, you know, up and down the coast and being able to continue to add the services and stuff to it. So there's a lot of areas like that too. And then there's ones where we see that maybe we'd be the first to kind of plant a flag in a market that is starting to spend more time on the luxury side of things and there's development coming and you often sometimes read there's condos in some particular areas and then you realize the condos were five and six and $7 million condos and you're like wow, this is you know, nice and definitely falls into it. And it can't just be about you know, villas, we should be looking at their condos as well. So all of that's in play at the at the same time.

Annie Holcombe  19:11  
Well I live right down the road from RDA so if you decide that you want to test some things out I am available some of your luxury services

Scott Wiseman  19:19  
Yeah, let's do it. I I plan to be down there as much as possible when that happens. I just learned my lesson not to try and drive even a golf cart during peak season because Oh

Alex Husner  19:29  
yeah, yeah, bike or walk. It's

Annie Holcombe  19:32  
about I'll never get anywhere right and yeah,

Scott Wiseman  19:34  
I'm sure a perfect way to get around down there.

Alex Husner  19:36  
They are they are for sure. We'll be back in just a minute after a word from our premier brand sponsor post away.

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Annie Holcombe  21:54  
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Alex Husner  22:00  
going back to the concierge services and I think you're spot on and that it seems like that is now becoming more of an emphasis, especially among the luxury brands that they're realizing. Okay, that is you know, not only supports what the standards are right now in the in the values of those properties. But now this app allows you to continue to elevate you know, bring more revenue streams really create an experience for the guests, but what types of things do you offer? I mean, what types of concierge? Have you found that works? And what are you interested in maybe pursuing in the future, there's

Scott Wiseman  22:30  
kind of a baseline that makes sense for each destination like you know, provisioning groceries and things before people get there. In some places. It's like, believe it or not, obviously Bart's everyone wants a rental car even though the islands so tiny, and it's hard to get around. So kind of making that super easy and convenient. private chef services are always a great one. Some destinations are really good at Milestone events and anniversaries and decorating and putting together you know, parties that you just can't imagine doing, you know, snorkeling lessons in your pool at your villa, or learning how to scuba there as well. We're seeing a big demand increase for IN HOME wellness type of activities, whether it's you know, food tastings, yoga, pilates, all of that being done in Villa as well. And sometimes it's super specific to a destination, right? Obviously, in Telluride if people don't bring their own skis and you need to do the ski rental, you know, convenient drop off and so forth. In other destinations. Like I'm thinking like, if I'm a dad, if I were driving kids down are spending a week on 30. A, if someone came to the villa the day before I checked out and cleaned my car out of all the junk from Oh,

Alex Husner  23:43  
yeah, what a great idea.

Scott Wiseman  23:44  
That would be the worst the wait and gold to do that. So we're trying to be creative in doing something that's meaningful. We don't want to have a list of things that no one actually uses. We want to actually find out what it is would make sense to you and what would be the most convenient and sometimes we do things just because right It's a thankless job but super important to make restaurant reservations and have that input. It's not anything we make any on. And it takes time. But it's probably the thing that's most appreciated by the guest is that you know, someone's willing to do that for them so they don't have to try and do it on their own. Or you know, so those types of things. We're trying to be clever about it and something that's meaningful. Yeah,

Alex Husner  24:23  
I'm the non exclusive part so you mentioned potentially in the future that you might put a sign in the ground and actually be maybe Nocturne within an area is that what you meant by that? Well,

Scott Wiseman  24:32  
no, not necessarily. Today we're kind of all the brands still carry their their names but we do have, you know, Nocturne, luxury villas collection, so that there's a commonality because they're traditionally between all the brands, they have the same type of clientele, but there's no overlap. There had been none between someone that would go to St. Barts wasn't also going to Cabo you know with Cabo villas, and they weren't going to You know, exceptional stays in Telluride. And so we're trying to get them familiar with that, at some point down the road, it would be an interesting switch, but it has so many implications from SEO content, and things like that, that we're just happy right now to be kind of affiliated as a collection is how we present it, so that we can also have benefits for homeowners, right? I mean, we want homeowners to be able to travel to the destinations as well. And you know, get, you know, discounts are super about extra value added by being part of the nocturne collection as well. So we're trying to, you know, build those bank of benefits for everybody for you know, we've got an audience with a lot of lenses on a lot of different audiences that we want to take care of. And so no, we don't have any immediate plans to plant the flag and say, there's no more paradise retreats. It's just Nocturne, luxury villas, but it's something that maybe down the road could evolve. But right now it just suffering. Gotcha.

Alex Husner  25:56  
That makes sense. What about Nocturne as an OTA? I mean, have you ever thought about using that Nocturne brand to book other? I know you said you don't want to really be in the nonexclusive business. But I feel like if you build this brand, to a certain point that people really become to know that you guys stand for those certain standards. And concierge, is that ever been something you've thought about? Yeah,

Scott Wiseman  26:17  
we've talked about it right now, you know, my belief is we've got something special, and I want it to stand on its own. And when we sell other people's products, I'm not saying that doesn't work, because it is there's a lot of other companies and destinations that are doing a fantastic job that obviously I would trust implicitly if we send customers there in a referral. But right now, on the immediate front, we want to kind of sell mostly our own products, where we know we control what's happening on the ground. And we're also trying to be selective in our distribution partners, as a result of that we don't want someone else out there taking everything that we've done and worked hard and guarantee and marketing it as their own and not being loyal to us but being loyal to, you know, another distribution point or an aggregator. So we do try and keep an eye on it. I mean, I'm not naive enough to know that over time, you know, that might be a direction. But right now, we like kind of owning our own experience and keeping it true as possible to the guests and the homeowners and our, you know, team members as well, that this is what we do is really special. And let's let's keep it specialists not give away our secret sauce. And let's make sure that we can back up what we say makes sense.

Annie Holcombe  27:29  
So I wanted to ask you, again, because you're in a lot of very markets, how do you look at what's going on in terms of like, regulatory? That's obviously a really hot topic for everybody to you know, you have a vested interest in multiple markets, like how do you stay on top of that, and ensure that your voice is being heard within the markets where maybe some of this regulatory stuff is kind of creeping up? Or, you know, rearing the ugly head, so to speak? Yeah,

Scott Wiseman  27:52  
it's definitely a crucial thing for us. It's not a passive activity for a couple of different reasons. One, we want to be the advocate for the homeowners, too, the first time something pops up in any of the communities, they reach out to us and say, What do you know, what's going on? How are you handling it? What can you do about it, and we've got a history of the that type of culture being embedded in a lot of the businesses and the ones that we wanted to augment, we stay really close to companies that keep an eye on that as well. And we're first to do something famously, you probably know, Theo cracky, the founder of paradise retreats in Santa Barbara sued Santa Barbara, on behalf of the short term rental industry, and one, which is pretty unbelievable. So there, we kind of everyone looks to paradise retreats as kind of the when anything's brewing to talk to you. So we keep close tabs on that as well. In other situations, I'll use Telluride as an example. This past year, Telluride passed a tax in downtown Telluride for short term rental, and basically charging a fee per bedroom, to the homeowners that are doing a short term rental, we keep very active, there's a founding association that keeps an eye on it, of which the original founder of exceptional stays as part of today, our general manager is on it as well. When that happened, we told everybody, we pay 50% of that fee for them in year one, because we're a partner with them. And we understand these things happen. And we're keeping track of what's going on. And so we gave everyone that, you know, 50% back on what they paid for that bedroom tech. So it's two reasons. One, it's obviously critical to our business. And we want to make sure one, we're abiding by all the regulations and laws to keeping an eye on it. So the industry continues to prosper. And then lastly, just making sure that the homeowners know that we're looking out for their best interests as well.

Alex Husner  29:42  
Yeah, I think there's a lot of benefits to that. And you know, certainly within these markets, establishing Nocturne as more of the local brand, as you know, the experts that are working with local officials that are keeping their eye on what's going on in other markets and hopefully seeing things before they come down the pipeline. It's there's a lot of Benefits hit that.

Scott Wiseman  30:00  
Absolutely yeah. And even like a place like Telluride after I was on the job for a short period of time, I went and attended the Telluride Association of Realtors, just introduce myself and introduced the you know, the the general manager that we just hired and explain what not turns role is because, you know, people aren't sure, and then they hear something transacted and say, I'm the visitor, the staff here is the locals, they're the ones taking care of you and just kind of, you know, ensure them that, you know, that's really what what we're all about. So

Annie Holcombe  30:28  
it's curious, you've been in and around this luxury travel space for quite some time. And obviously, the vacation rental is the later part of your career, what have you seen over time, and that gives you I guess, excitement for the future in this space, I think a lot of people are kind of bullish on what vacation rentals looks like in the future, again, partly because of regulatory and partly because travel is just getting back to normal. And we're no longer like the coolest kid on the block. But, you know, we have a lot of room to grow. So, you know, what are you seeing as trends moving forward that you think are positive for the industry?

Scott Wiseman  31:02  
I think the biggest trend that's super positive is how a lot of big brands got into it, right? There's a lot of big brand hotels that realize they can't ignore it. And it's kind of like I was with the tour operating an all inclusive space prior to this, and you go back 1520 years, and everyone was like all inclusive, who like what is that? Like, you have to barter for beads. And you know, they just negated it is a valid form of travel, and no hotels are this on the other. And now every hotel company, right was fighting to be in the building. I see that path for the villa space, and particularly the luxury villa side of it, I think that particularly hotel companies that bring a lot of credit to they own the most travelers, right, their loyalty programs and stuff, saw and invested in the villa space, I think, you know, they're probably still figuring out if this is the model they want, will they look at other models, I think that's made it here to stay legitimized in a really good way. So I think that what's happened with all inclusive is definitely going to happen with, you know, the villa rental space and become more mainstream, not an alternative form of travel. Like I love the hotel space, I came out of it. But I tell people all the time, the difference is you literally can replicate and do anything you can do in a hotel, except be around strangers. So why would you? Why would you not want it I mean, we've done synchronized swimming, Latin nominated Grammy singers at events, we've recreated anything you could possibly do at a hotel and more in the villa rental space. So will it go through in typical market up and down, I think it's just resettling a little bit right after COVID. But the numbers are strong. We saw, you know, at a conference right recently that the demand is outstripping hotel demand still going forward. And so the numbers, the data, particularly the luxury segment, which is so resilient, is strong. And a lot of the customers in the luxury segment are the ones who also buy second and third homes that look to use them for Villa rentals. So they're already familiar with the market as well. So I have really high hopes and think that things, you know, will continue to move upward for the industry. And it'll continue to just get better and better.

Alex Husner  33:17  
Yeah, that's a really good point that everything you can do in a hotel you can do in a vacation rental, because the opposite way is not true. Right? I mean, you, you can't recreate that privacy in the space and everything that comes with a vacation rental that makes it such an attractive option for people. But I was just talking to somebody the other day hotels were built on service, the product was second, right vacation rentals was the product in the service a second. So I love what these luxury brands like Nocturne and some of the others are doing. Because I mean, you're kind of bringing both of those worlds together of the service and the level of luxury that you know, the higher end hotel brands have, but still paired with that exceptional product. So I think the luxury market specifically in vacation rentals is going to continue to grow. And that makes perfect sense that there could be that option that all of your meals are cooked. It's not just a one time private chef, and I do that all day long. I don't like cooking on vacation. I think it's a great idea. Yeah. And,

Scott Wiseman  34:12  
you know, along with our, you know, mission, vision and values, you know, we have a couple of unique things we had in there and ones are company belief. So to your point, our company belief is at the heart of any extraordinary travel experience is extraordinary accommodations. So your point exactly. It's not just service than the house matters in the experience in the house because people spend a lot in there is an important part of it. So we're totally aligned with that same philosophy that you know, you can have amazing experience but it really starts with the you know, extraordinary accommodations.

Alex Husner  34:45  
Yeah. What about travel agents? Do you do business with travel agents? I know that's that's a big part for the luxury side.

Scott Wiseman  34:51  
Yeah, my whole life. I've had the privilege of working with travel advisors and they're amazing and they I know that they've been so liberating that they were going away for the last two decades, and the fact that you're, it's just a testament to it's not going to happen, and particularly for the luxury clientele, they're strong, we do a lot of Travel Advisor business, a lot of it repeat. What I will tell you is that the Travel Advisor revenue per booking is usually 45 to 50%. Over all other bookings, they're just really good at knowing what their clients want. They're good at figuring out how to on their own upsell the client or get them into what needs to be done. They're just they're professionals today, they're not just, you know, fly by night they're traveling are experiencing there, some of them, you know, our membership base today, which is bringing in a whole new clientele, the Winco St. Barts business that we have, is part of virtuoso, which is good, and they've been for many, many years, but all of our businesses, some of them have not done a lot with travel advisors in the past are just starting to now appreciate that business coming in as part of private Nocturne effort as well, to make more awareness to the travel advisors that were here. So you,

Annie Holcombe  36:05  
you kind of teased that you had looked to have an announcement here in the near future of another acquisition. I'm curious as to the roadmap for acquisition, how far out do you have plans for acquisition? Do you already have a pipeline of things that you're looking at? You know, what, what does that look like for Nocturne?

Scott Wiseman  36:24  
Yeah, it's it's an organic developing perpetual roadmap and things go in and out in different places, right, sometimes we'll talk to someone for multiple years, and you know, still keep things moving for different reasons. Other times, someone will pop up, because they'll be like, Hey, we've had a referral, like I just sold my business, NAFTA, and you might want to do the same, they were great to work with and boom, we've got another one there as well. So I would say today, we've got a list of easily four dozen or so that are, you know, in a pipeline, you would call it that we're kind of talking to and looking at plus destinations where we don't know anyone yet and just starting to have that that networking as well. It's a constant process. It's it's a fun one to learn about that in the markets. But I think it'll be in the immediate future and probably beyond just the perpetual part of what we are. And what we do is that we really believe that if we stay focused on the luxury side of it, and can have a really strong culture and add a lot of value by building a real collection of businesses, we're going to do it, we're never going to buy anything, just to say that we did it or not have them fit the right mold now or not be able to add value to them and to us and still develop in the culture. But we still think there's a lot out there for us to keep going very

Annie Holcombe  37:40  
cool. Very cool. Lots and lots and lots of things going on for you guys. Like I said, we've had an opportunity to meet some of your team. We're super excited about what you are developing and what the future holds. And so hopefully, we'll have you back and get to talk to you a little more about this newer acquisition and be able to share it with our listeners. But in the meantime, I don't know Alex, if you had any other questions before I rudely wrapped. That's good. I

Alex Husner  38:04  
think we covered a lot of the timing of this I love to which wasn't specifically planned, but worked out well after the Jacoby and Jason episode. So this was fun to ask questions after hearing all their thoughts too. And we're just excited to watch your journey continued to grow and, and see all the great things that you continue to do. Thanks. So

Scott Wiseman  38:23  
I really appreciate it. And you mentioned my team, I just want to give them a shout out to because they make us look good. And they make me look. They're the ones that are really, you know, grinding and doing an amazing job with their individual markets and still contributing at a nocturn level. I couldn't be more excited about the team that we have all of them. And we have over 150 employees now. And just every one of them is working so hard and putting Nocturne and their brands first and making my job easy. So I'm just really fortunate how I give them a lot of credit, right? Because they've come from a culture that is you know, something different and now they're part of something larger and so many of them have just jumped on board and embraced it and are shining. So just shout out to them and my appreciation because I wouldn't be here if they weren't doing what they were doing. Great.

Alex Husner  39:12  
Love it. Scott, if anybody wants to reach out to you and Nocturne what's the easiest way for them to get in touch? Well, they

Scott Wiseman  39:19  
can reach out to me directly. There's a general mailbox or my very long email address is just Scott Wiseman at Nocturne luxury doulas.com which you should be able to find online as well or even through LinkedIn profile or anyway, but then I answer my own phone and I'm pretty responsive. So feel free to reach out. Okay,

Alex Husner  39:39  
great. Well, we will include that in our show notes. And if anyone wants to get in touch with Andy and I in the meantime, you can go to Alex and Annie podcast.com And thank you for everyone for tuning in. And Scott, thank you for joining us today.