One Industry, One Mission: The Power of Partnership Between VRMA & VR Nation

Alex Husner  
Training. Welcome to Alex nanny, the real women of vacation rentals. I'm Alex and I'm Annie, and we are joined today with a panel of amazing superstars from the vacation rental industry. We have vrma Executive Director, Anne Gardner and Chair of the Board of Directors, Jody rafasco, along with VR nation President Matt Tisdale and Executive Director, Heidi What is your Henrik center? I was actually doing pretty good. That's a lot of names. Hold on from the top. Heidi Hendrickson, Okay, welcome to Alex nanny, the relevant of vacation rentals. I'm Alex and I'm Annie, and we are joined today by a whole panel of vacation rentals superstars. We have from vrma, the Executive Director and Gardner and Chair of the Board of Directors, Jody rafasco, along with from VR nation. We have President Matt Tisdale and Executive Director, Heidi Henrickson, welcome everybody.

Annie Holcombe  
Well, we've got a group here, so I know it's going to be hard to rein everybody in, but we thought the easiest thing to do is just kind of go around. And I don't know how we all look to each other on the screen, but maybe start with Anne and Jody and then go over to Matt and Heidi. Just a little introduction about yourself and what you do in vacation rentals,

Anne Gardner  
sure, so Well, thanks so much for for having us. This is first, first for me since joining the team with vrma. But as you said, I'm Aaron Gardner. I am the Executive Director for vrma, and I have been with the team since the end of April of 24 and really glad to be here. Come from a background in organized real estate and property management and commercial real estate as well. And so just really, really, super glad to be part of our industry. I'm a completely hooked fan and all in and just really glad to be here and learn from these pros today on our call.

Jodi Refosco  
Hi, I'm Jody rifasco. I am the VR may board chair, and I am out of Western Maryland. I have a vacation rental company of about 10 properties. Before this, I had a company of over 500 homes, but I've been in the industry for probably 25 years, and I'm real excited to be here, and I appreciate you guys inviting us and looking forward to the conversation.

Matt Tesdall  
I'm Matthew Tesla, president of be our nation. I currently reside south of Portland, south of all the fun activities over COVID, but closer to the wine country. So if you like wine, this is where you need to come. I own family time vacation rentals, along with my wife. We're in Oregon, Idaho and southern Utah. So happy to be on and enjoying all these amazing people.

Heidie Henriksen  
 Awesome, great. Happy to be here too. I'm Heidi Hendrickson, Executive Director at VR nation, joined the association in August of last year, 2024 and have about a 25 year career in short term rentals, starting as a host myself and then working for a luxury property manager in Park City, Utah, works for quite a few different facets of the vocational industry and most recently, co founded a nonprofit called Astro. And then, like I said, joined we are nation just last year. So excited to be here today.

Alex Husner  
Awesome. Well, super excited to have you guys. And I think you know, today we wanted to just learn a little bit more about what's going on between the two organizations. And most importantly, the event that you both have coming up in April. There's two, two great events coming up, one on this side of the East Coast, in Savannah, and the other one down in Austin. But maybe just give us and we can kick it off with you. Heidi, just kind of an idea of what you're looking forward to with for you guys, this is your second, second conference as VR nation, but how many as for the whole Association now?

Heidie Henriksen  
So VR nation launched in 2011 and I think our conferences, I recall, Matt, you might have to help me out here, started in about 2015 on a regional basis. So last year, our regional conference in Boise was when we announced our rebrand and migration to a national organization. So this is in April, our first national conference. We're incredibly excited about very

Annie Holcombe  
cool. Matt, do you want to add anything to that?

Matt Tesdall  
Yeah, I didn't know if you wanted to jump in please? Yeah. I mean the BR nation, going from Northwest BRP, which is a regional Northwest conference in Hawaii and Canada and those kind of places, really has been about a two year project that we've worked on in the board. I've been part of the board for about six years in different capacities, and currently the president for this year and. Next year, but the that's what we were excited about. Our conference has always been intimate, and, you know, a lot of fun, a lot of collaboration and a lot of just working together. And that's what the our vendors say when they when they've come and it was the same vendors that go to all these conferences, whether it's vra or us. And so that's just super exciting. We're really excited to have this in Austin, April, the end of April, there the 27th and 28th on Sunday, Monday, at the JW Marriott and and so that's exciting. And I know you, Jody and Ann, you guys have you're the it's the front of line conference right in Savannah?

Jodi Refosco  
Yeah, we have our frontline excellence conference is April 14 to the 15th in Savannah at the convention center. We had it there. We had a Eastern Conference. I think there, years ago, it was a great event. It's a great location. It's kind of close to a lot of drive to market there, and it's we pivoted so like, back at the like, give you guys some history, is that we used to have, like, a in the spring at East Coast show and a West Coast show, and we, years ago, made him to be one event which is supposed to alternate Coast spring, the spring forum, and it was supposed to work towards the front line, but kind of just grew, and we kind of came more of like a mini International. So it was, it was a little bit bigger than what we intended. So this conference, we pivoted. We moved it to Savannah, we moved it to kind of focus on operations, front desk, and then their managers. So there's like three tracks. So it's very different than what we've seen in the past, much more of a smaller, intimate setting than we've seen. But it's real exciting. It's something that I really look forward to, but it's definitely different than what we you guys would have seen in spring the past couple years.

Matt Tesdall  
You know the I remember back in the day Jody, that when Burma had the like you said, the East West. I always go to the Western Conference, because I like to it was, it was, it wasn't small, but it was smaller than the the National Conference, and it was in Reno. And you had one of the best, one of the best closing setting, you know, closing, not seminars, but closing speaker, I talked about bringing all the stuff you learn in this, in this during the show, and how to implement it throughout the year. And it was all done with sticky notes. I've used this so many times in different organizations. I loved it. I kept that back then I was working on my my desk in the kitchens where I built the business, and I had it posted up on the wall, all my sticky notes. My wife was like, what is that? I go it's my action plan for the year. Sticky Note off every time I accomplished it, I use that so much.

Jodi Refosco  
Yeah, I went, I was always at the Eastern Conference, right? And then my father used to be on the board too, back in the day, and he brought me out to a Western Conference. And, well, I'm a mountain region, right, but just on the East Coast, just smaller mountains, and everybody's got out there. So I remember coming out to the Western Conference. I'm like, This is amazing. It's like, My people, I found them. It was really because it was enlightening. I was, like, talking about things our mountain, thinking it was brand new ideas, and hear it, no, I just haven't been talking to the mountain

Matt Tesdall  
people. Yeah, it's very west coast, the Wild West. Yeah,

Jodi Refosco  
it was, it was very cool. So now, yes, I remember the West Coast, East Coast, but this will be different. So it's going to be cool, more operation style. It's in line to bring more, more employees with you, more staff with you, and that it's more cost effective. So it's exciting, something different.

Alex Husner  
That's awesome. That's awesome. I know Annie and I attended, and when it was NW, VRP, two years ago in Reno, and that was actually the first time I had ever been to Reno, but that was a great event. And one thing that we really loved about that was exactly what you said, Matt, that it was more of an intimate kind of feel, you know, small, a smaller conference, but also it just had a different kind of just feel to it in some of the conference. And I think that's one thing I've noticed, is just conferences have different feels when you're there, like just, just the atmosphere and, you know, the tone and the way that things are run, like you just, you can it has a different vibe depending on what show that you're at. But you guys do some fun things that we didn't get to see it last year, but I saw videos of the housekeeping Olympics that you did. Are you doing anything like that this year? We're

Matt Tesdall  
doing a couple. We're doing the host GPO pickleball, which I which I think, aren't you guys doing that too? Are you doing a pickleball did I see that

Jodi Refosco  
they do that at international conference. They have a pickleball tournament. Yeah. Vegas

Matt Tesdall  
is October, right? Mm, hmm. The seniors, yeah. But anyway, so we're doing that second annual with host GPO, and then also we're doing the second annual housekeeping Olympics. I think Heidi did. We've added a couple categories to that this year.

Heidie Henriksen  
We did. We had three categories last year. So this year we're adding a fourth category, revolving shower curtains, so it's, it's meant to. Be fun, engaging and still very educational. So we kind of point out best practices for cleaning teams and operational teams on those different aspects. And there's a vacuum relay, there's a bed making competition, and there's a gorgeous golden trophy up for grabs. So it's gonna be good event.

Speaker 1  
It sounds amazing. Yeah, I was gonna say, but is somebody going

Annie Holcombe  
to show us how to fold fitted sheets? Because that's the thing that's still

Jodi Refosco  
Joe will help absolute, okay, yeah, might never look like his.

Annie Holcombe  
So I think one of the things that I think this is really interesting for the vrma and is just the the pivot back to kind of what you used to do, and I think that that's going back to the core of what vrma was years ago. And I think it's good because it's got people talking this year and are excited and knowing that we're not going to be able to go to like, I'm not doing both for my company. I'm going to do VR nation and then do the international but I think that's like spreading people's thought processes out over multiple conferences, and it's it's fostered a sense of more collaboration, which I think is, again, what we're what this podcast is about. This episode is about, is talking about the collaboration between the organization. So I thought like, maybe Anne and Heidi, from your perspective, the two different associations. Where do you guys see the collaborative effort moving forward? For you guys,

Anne Gardner  
sure? I think that's a great question and great segue. And so from, from our perspective, as far as in, in being able to, you know, bring VR ma forward and make sure that we're really aligned with where our members are and where our industry really has, has areas of need for us to be involved is to start, just as we said, first off, with the programming and but then moving into the fact that we are, we are a year round. We're a trade organization representing an industry and the the areas of concern and protection within advocacy and making sure that we are in that leadership role as far as research and providing insights and being able to support our members in in the state and local affiliation organizations, but also just throughout the country And in those efforts. And so that's a real area where VR May is, I think, has a great opportunity in a collaborative frame. And so Heidi, we were part of a conversation with a couple of other other organizations a few weeks ago. I think we have another conversation coming up this week, and just being able to see how we can be additive in protecting our industry, making sure that you have the right for for use and enjoyment and to build your business and to grow your business, and so that we're doing it in ways that are adding to our communities and really showing The true economic impact and value. And so those are conversations where there's room for everyone. We need everyone in that conversation and doing that shared lift together. And so for for me, that's really the first area that that I come to, where we say, Here's fantastic collaborative opportunity where we can all live.

Heidie Henriksen  
Well, Said, and I'd love to chime in also, I know one of the first things I did in my new role was reach out to Anne and invite her and another representative to our conference, and then us do the same. We met in person for a good hour and had a wonderful conversation about how our two organizations can be complimentary to our efforts and what we do for the industry as a whole, and really focusing on elevating standards together. So we've had good conversations. We've come together on the advocacy front to make sure that we're complimentary on those efforts as well, in partnership with some other organizations. And from an industry perspective, if you look at other industries, such as the hotel world, you've got multiple organizations supporting everyone as a whole, and that's something we're very focused on doing as well, with this in VR nation and VR maze collaboration, so making sure all those resources are available.

Annie Holcombe  
Great. Matt And Jody, maybe pivot over to you guys. So from your perspective, what do you see the ability to collaborate moving forward. I think you know, you guys, Jodi, you've been with VR may for a very long time, and have already been kind of in the leadership roles on the board. What do you know? I think that the the idea of bringing the associations together to work together, is something that we've all wanted to see. So I think it's really great that this is happening. But from your each individual, you know, kind of vantage points within the organizations. What do you see beyond advocacy? What do you see other collaborations that are possible?

Jodi Refosco  
Well, yeah, I mean, this is, first of all, this, I feel like this is great. I mean, it's, I've been a part of VR May I was on, oh, sorry, I was on VR may board, I think starting in two. 2013 maybe, and I was the president then. And at that time, there really was no there was no other like conferences or associations kind of similar to us. And then out of COVID, they all spring up. And I feel like our industry has changed so much since then, right? Our industry has grown rapidly, especially since COVID and a lot of different associations, like I remember you guys up there when you had the NW, vrma, and it was Michelle acavela was on it right? Was, yeah, yes. There we go. Thank you. And I remember her trying to bring us together on different levels. And you know, it, there was ways that we could work together. And we, I think we struggled a little bit then, and so when I came back onto the board, and when I took this position, I'm like, Let's collaborate. You know, there's no reason that we all sit in our silos. I mean, the what we're all doing is trying to lift the professionalism of our industry, inside and outside of advocacy, right? We want you know we're more well known than, like before COVID, people were barely talking about vacation rentals, right? They were talking about staying in hotels, and now they're more talking about vacation rentals. And now we have regulations because of, they've blown up, and we've had some bad actors out there. So I think collaboration could be alongside of, we could talk about different conferences and lift each other up, because I feel like we also do fill a different space, right? And I think working together. I mean, we just did, I just with the board, did a two and a half day board retreat in January, and we were doing a whole strategic plan and operation analysis, and one of the things was collaboration. I mean, it was a big part of what we talked about. So I look forward to conversations like this with David and Heidi and all the other associations out there. Because I feel like we all fill a space and have a and have a lane a little bit. I mean, it does kind of go over a little bit, but I feel like we all can lift each other up. So it's, I'm very much forward, looking forward to it. I

Matt Tesdall  
mean, very well said, Jody, that's exactly how we feel. Let's face it, our industry has morphed, yeah, over the years, okay? I mean, COVID and before that, in some of the OTAs that have come along in recent this last decade has really changed our landscape, and we have serious fights on our hand. I know you mentioned advocacy, but there's other things as well, and it's having that local representation. Sometimes it's the smaller groups the bigger groups. I mean, just that, that in general, is so important to us. And I saw I agree with what Heidi said. I've been in this business almost 20 years. I cut my teeth with Verba. I did that's where I started, when I was doing my, you know, on the west coast, mostly honestly, and then when you would have the wet, you know, the region, or the national conferences on the west that's where I would go. But without that, I wouldn't be where I am on the educational standpoint. And back in those days, serving on the ambassador program and being involved in that. And when new members come on and thanking them and said, thanks for being in a meeting with the conference. And anybody who knows me, I'm really more of an in person kind of guy. I really like the talking to people in person. And this is great. I love this, but this is not natural, but it's so the educational pieces is key. And just for you personally, it's about networking. I love the networking. So that's what I love about us coming together and having more moments like this, whether it's in Vegas at a national conference or an executive Summit. All of that is really key. And you have one coming the executive summit right in May. I think,

Jodi Refosco  
yeah, yeah, we have one. So we have a second kind of spring event, but this is more senior level may 28 in South Beach, and it's have you guys been to an executive Summit? So I was president of your Arma when we had our first one, but my fifth grader was graduating fifth grade, and I couldn't miss it, so I went for the board meeting and literally missed running the first executive Summit. Mike Harrington ended up running it for me, but I was and then just that time of year was really hard for me, so I went last year, and I loved it. I just love, I love smaller, intimate set. You know, there's a reason for the larger ones, but there's also a reason for the smaller ones, and that one's more well, it's all executive level, so it's more of like a high level networking. And something that's different this year is we're bringing the suppliers or the sponsors into the room with us, because I feel like it's very important to be able to collaborate with them too, because it's nice when you're like, trying to drive an idea, right? And you sit down, look, well, have you seen this across the industry? Because I only see what I see in my area, right? And it's not just VRMs, but the the suppliers, too. So that's, yeah, that's coming on the 28th if you haven't got you guys should come it is, it is. It was so amazing. And I had you talk about your sticky notes. Yes, I had, like, notebooks upon notebooks, and I had a whole notebook full of just ideas, because it was, like, and it was more intimate. So like, you could ask questions and, like, get answers from other senior level, exact. So it kind of cool. Yeah, I'm excited

Alex Husner  
if I,

Anne Gardner  
if I can also offer Alex and Andy, we know you're, you're fans of being able to pass along opportunities. And so we we have also reimagined this event and that it is completely new with a whole new focus and effort. And so we wanted to provide to your viewers a discount code that we will share with you for trying out that executive Summit, and just how that is also sort of re imagined, new, as Jody said, much more intimate, but the level of programming and detail that's involved in this event. It's really driven by a super engaged number of our members. And as we said, It is not about the content in a room and keeping folks in like an exhibit hall. It's really a truly participatory and integrated event. Because the fact is, is that, you know, our innovation doesn't come from one side of our industry. Our innovation comes from the whole and so we're all learning and growing together and so participating. And it's a, it's a new focus. And in some regards, I think, as you said, Matt, it's a, it's a return home, if you will. So

Alex Husner  
yeah, that's that's such a great point, too. And I think, you know, the vendors and suppliers in this space have gotten kind of frustrated at some events over the last few years, just because they felt separated from where the property managers are. And, you know, a lot of that comes down to the venue, really, to be honest. But I think having them in the same place is going to be great. And, you know, at the end of the day, the suppliers in our space are so important to what we all do. I mean, they're seeing things from a different lens than we are as property managers and vice versa. But as a suppliers that they get to talk to companies all over the country and in the world, you know, the perspective that they bring back to property managers is really important, so I think it is good to have them more in those active conversations, and not so much of okay, they're walking by a booth and you know, they're gonna try and grab you, but like, let's have like, real, authentic conversations. And that's how sales should happen anyways, right? So I'm sure they're going to be just thrilled about that.

Matt Tesdall  
It's like speed dating,

Alex Husner  
right? Exactly. Yeah, a lot of

Matt Tesdall  
these vendors, they were PMS at one point, and

Alex Husner  
vice versa. You know, there's both sides. And over

Matt Tesdall  
the years, these become our friends, honestly. And we hang out. We go visit them. They come here and drink wine. You go to the you go to your beach. I mean, it's so much fun. Yeah,

Annie Holcombe  
I wanted to ask you guys, so we had recently interviewed Tim ro from VRBO, and one of the things that we talk about on the show a lot is education. And how do we get education in front of those new, new entrants to the space. And I think that, you know, vrma, a few years ago, announced that they were going to allow people that were, you know, smaller operators, one unit, to to join the association. And it kind of like, when it, when it was announced, there was, like, two schools of thought. Some people were like, Absolutely not. We don't want them. And other people, like, I Alex and I had this conversation too. Like I was like, we have to get them in, and we want them in. Like, from the beginning, you know, you could get them to walk. Get them to water, but you can, you make them drink. But like, looking at, I think, VR nation, you've taken a kind of a similar approach, but because you're not, you haven't been around as long, and maybe have, like, this legacy, kind of legacy belief system that, you know, that the members have, that you want to engage with these smaller, you know, these smaller PMS and so what do you see? I feel like between the two associations can continuing to jump off the collaboration part, there's an opportunity to really engage with these smaller operators in these niche markets, these newer markets that sort of have emerged that aren't your traditional vacation rental or maybe short term urban markets to help them get educated. So do you see that there's like, education sessions and maybe webinars, things that both associations can do together, to that we can offer out to the larger the larger community of short term rentals?

Matt Tesdall  
How do you have a big, big passion on this? You want to, you want to take this VR nation side?

Heidie Henriksen  
Sure, yeah, I know that's a big piece of our focus. I would say at least 20% of the content at our conference, at our road shows and the educational initiatives that we focus on is driven and targeted at that self managing or RBO host Astro the association I co founded, has merged with VR nation, so we have welcomed those members into our portfolio, and so we're very keen on making sure we address those individuals with all the resources that they need. A lot of them are staying in their lane and doing okay and not really looking for help. But there's also a big majority out there that don't know our both of our. Students exist and that we can be supporting them. So we're definitely focused on on those initiatives, and the content that those self managing hosts are looking for, or how they run their hosting businesses, in most cases, is very different from how a property management company operates. So trying to fulfill their needs from an education standpoint, is definitely a big challenge. I mean, I would say we welcome the collaboration on that

Matt Tesdall  
front. Let's face it, most of us started with one or two or handful of properties. I mean, I start with we start with one. It was our cabin. And you know, back in 2007 eight, you couldn't afford anything anymore because everything was going to the to the heck and handbag. So it told my wife, we're going to start renting this cabin out if we're gonna keep it. She says, Absolutely not. I go, I gotta sell it. She goes, Okay, you can rent

Anne Gardner  
it. Yeah, if I'd love to follow on. Heidi, your energy and enthusiasm there, because I we share it in that regard. And so it's, it's exciting. And as you reference Annie, we we had an initiative in 2022 where we said, why don't we try this out and welcome in just individuals, if you will. And so I think some of what we've learned from that and conversations we're having with our membership and whatnot are showing us that the individuals who are in that space are truly their aspirational hospitality. They are looking most of the time to to be in that space and grow a business. And so for us, it's a matter of really doing some research right now. You know, Jody and I have been talking, it seems like, sometimes multiple times a day since our retreat in Las Vegas about, you know, ways we are going to really serve up value and so, and you're right. Heidi, it's a, it's a bit like boil in the ocean. You know, when the individual owner operators are looking for amenity sheets and they're looking for styling tips and, you know, things like that. That is very different than when we have sort of the PMs shootout, if you will, of 15 vendors, you know, broad across in a major a major room in the conference in October. And so it is a bit of being able to make sure that we're positioned so that when we are in that space, we're able to adequately serve the needs, and so that we're also helping them in that path forward. And so, Matt, you were talking about how vra gave you your start. And I will say that to go back to our initial meeting we were talking about in April, foundations, you know, in the last eight or nine months, so many of these conversations of what, what does VR may mean to you, what's been your experience? So many folks told me just what you said, vrma helped them get their start, that vra was foundational to their beginnings. And so I think you can can see a focus and a channel there. And so as we look into how do we work with and serve value up for the larger segment of short term rental and vacation rental, that's definitely going to be a focus of, let's make sure we're adding value and helping someone with their their business and their vision of their trajectory,

Jodi Refosco  
yeah, and to add on. I mean, when they when we did that promotion, you know, I think VR may had a great idea to do that and open that up, but I feel like they didn't move fast enough to add the value that they that that segment needed. And I mean, I could be, you know, example of that segment. I mean, I had a company of 520 plus properties, sold it, and now I own own and manage my own properties. I have 10 of them. And so it's, you know, and there are different needs. So, you know, when we look at VR May and the membership now, like for us, I mean, the memberships change. It's need to use your word man, it's morphed. It's like, it's not just vacation rental managers, but it's also short term rental managers. And Annie, you know, I think you kind of, you made it very plain to see for me when you you, I don't know where I heard you say it, but like, you live in a vacation destination. You vacation at short term rentals. And it's like, that is a big segment, and there's a segment the of the United States that I don't think it's served by VR nation or VR May. And who is that? And who do they determine? So I think there's a lot of learning, I mean, for the industry to figure out who the property managers are, and then to address their needs. And I think that's why there is plenty of space for people to grow here and to be here, and it's collaborating so we can give the most high level education no matter what segment they are serving. You know,

Matt Tesdall  
from the numbers that we see, only about 10% of the property management companies out there go to a conference in a year. Yeah,

Alex Husner  
I would believe that.

Matt Tesdall  
Yeah. Last 10. I mean, we have so much work to do that probably my generation is not going to finish at all after that, because it's just we have such an opportunity. That's why I think we keep talking about collaboration, innovation, all that stuff, and it's that is the foundation here in education. I just think we have a long road ahead of us to bring everybody together? Yeah,

Alex Husner  
we've been asked that question quite a bit on some of the podcasts that Annie and I have been on, of like, you know, what's the difference between a vacation rental versus a short term rental? And a vacation rental is a short term rental, but a short term rental isn't necessarily a vacation rental. It's kind of how we phrase that rental back to people. Because, I mean, really, you know, the urban short term rentals, it's, it really is a different business model, you know, and for them, like, you know, that they're not getting for the most part, I mean, like, the the repeat business that these vacation destinations get, it's, it's just that's not, that's not there, right? So for those people to be trying to focus on, you know, direct bookings and repeat repeat business, like, there, there were, there. Sometimes I feel like people are selling them strategies that are just never going to inherently work. But I do think that there is more of an opportunity, not even just looking at size of property managers, but also locations and just different types, and bringing more of those people into the fold. And I will say when we were at actually, well, VR may last fall, and then immen, which was, I think, kind of a, you know, kind of good, good examples of VR may obviously more vacation rentals, and immen is kind of more of the short term rentals. But saw a couple operators that I know out of Ohio, that they went to both. And it was, you know, it was nice to see that, that they just started going to conferences. But they do fall more in that urban operator type of a model, but that'll be interesting to follow as we continue moving forward.

Heidie Henriksen  
It seems like there's a lot of terms in this industry that could use some clarification on that note, out between the VR and str and all the different acronyms. And some people call it a vocational management company, and other call it a prop. Call it a property management company. And trying to bring some of that standardization to the industry would be helpful. I think for a lot of people,

Annie Holcombe  
we do love our acronyms. That is, that is one thing that is for sure, that. But I think, I think that you guys are you guys have started exactly what Alex and I like when we started this podcast. One of the things that we things that we really wanted to to hone in on and not be, not be so focused on just vacation rentals, but really kind of look at the industry overall, because it was, kind of, it was spreading, and it was growing in different areas. And so, you know, we kind of cringe every time we talk to somebody who's like, oh yeah. Well, I was, you know, getting my education from this guy on YouTube who does, like, rental arbitrage and, you know, whatever. And so it's like, oh gosh, we just, we have to get all on the same page. But I think there's an opportunity, you know, that rising tide lifts all boats. I mean, I think that we're, if we're working together, we don't have to have the same, necessarily, the same mission. But I think if we're all kind of seeing from the same hymnal, so to speak, and like, here's what your basics you should be, and then it can, you know, it can morph out from the from the different markets. I think that's it's at least a starting point. It just feels like we're finally in a place where people are talking. And one thing that came out of COVID that I felt like we were all in agreement on was we needed a unified voice. But that never really kind of came together. So I applaud you guys for really trying to get that unification really kicks. And welcome to the dog. That's

Alex Husner  
the choir sings.

Anne Gardner  
I'll think something that that I saw Heidi and Matt is news of your road show. And I thought that was really exciting. Talk about, we talk about, how do we extend, right? How do we bring? You know, not everyone we've had so much convert conversation about conferences and meetings and whatnot, but And you talk about how few are actually attending, and so how do we disperse and unify and elevate the industry, and when outside of those events, and so I'm, I was super excited to see about your road show. I'd love to hear a little bit about that. And, yeah, and, and sort of where, where you see that going next, because bringing, bringing the content and bringing this to our operator communities, I think is, is super exciting, really,

Matt Tesdall  
where the vision from this came in, and it's a big passion of mine when I became President, that I want to go out and I want to meet the people where they are. Not everybody either has time or money or whatever to be able to go to our conferences in different states, but that's that's your goal, right? But sometimes you gotta bring it to them. And honestly, I learned this from Amy Heino, from the member the old VRM Intel, and when she did one here in Portland area with some vendors and herself, and it was about 50 people, super simple lunch and some. Really good breakout sessions. And when I talked to the board, I said, guys, this is what we need to do. We need to be out, and we need to bring it to multiple areas of the country, so that smaller operators, or even larger operators, can just get together and we could, you know, shake hands and kiss babies. Let's say, I mean, just be close, yeah, and that's, that's where it came from. So this year, it starts in Portland on March 11, at the Kennedy School. Anybody's familiar with the West Coast, there's the MC minimon brothers that have done a great job taking these old churches and schools whatnot, and turning them into these fantastic venues. So this is at the Kennedy School, and then our next one in Mays and Florida, I think Heidi,

Speaker 2  
yeah, it's in Sarasota, Bradenton area, yep. And

Matt Tesdall  
then we're going to go to the Truckee Northern, you know, Nevada, California, there. And then, I think then Denver or Telluride q3, is

Heidie Henriksen  
record ridge. Q4, is Truckee Tahoe, get around the whole country, including our conference in Austin. And like Matt said, really focused on education, we have a series of tracks on safety certifications, cleaning certifications. It's all covered by a VR nation membership. And like Matt said, too, it's got lunch involved and bringing in some local experts. We've got the Oregon restaurant Lodging Association participating in our Portland event. So talking about some new house bills in the areas, how it could impact short rentals, so it really could impact the entire state. But yeah, really excited to bring this to a more local level.

Alex Husner  
Yeah, I think that's great to do also, for for the suppliers and your sponsors, for them to be able to go out and more, you know, reasonably from a cost perspective, be able to get in front of managers, because it's, it's a lot of money for them too. I mean, if they're going to a market individually, to, you know, go and set meetings. And sometimes it helps just when you're with other vendors that you have relationships with, and you can kind of go at it together. So that's, that's gonna be really cool to see

Heidie Henriksen  
the VR may connect that that's,

Alex Husner  
I was gonna say, Yeah, is what's the future for that? Ann and Jody. Do you think those will come back at some point? Yeah,

Jodi Refosco  
I think they're gonna come back. I feel like we had to, like, pull back everything and kind of start afresh, right? So I feel like that we had to focus on, you know, our major events which, you know, we pull back. We're not doing European, we're just doing the International, you know, the spring event and the executive Summit. But I see the connects coming. I think connects have to be strategic, of where you have them. And I think it's very important to have really good boots on the ground, like operators, to help out with that area. But I think it's smart to you, to me, take the Take it, take the education content to our members. It's very smart what you guys are doing. But yeah, I see it's coming back in the future. Just we needed to start anew and kind of focus on what was most important to our members at the time.

Annie Holcombe  
So wanted to ask a question about membership, just from the two different perspectives, what would you what would you say? Each of you say is the value proposition for each organization, for anybody that's listening and thinking like, Well, which one should I be? Should I do both? Should I do one? You know, like, what should be the things that they should consider when looking at both of the associations. I mean,

Matt Tesdall  
for me, I don't think it's I don't think it's an either, or it's not an either, or for me personally, so I think you'd look at the International Conference, whether it's in Vegas or on the East Coast or whatever, is fantastic. You have everybody there. It could be daunting for some people who have a hard time with super large crowds, because it is big, but that is the benefit for me, and just take and take my VR nation hat off for a minute and just me as a PM, so I bring my team to those and then each my team members, they have their focus, whether it's, you know, an area manager for me, or housekeeping manager, they can Do their own meetings with their own people, and they can with their own vendors, and they can find, you know, some new products that are in there. You look at a VR nation, where you we both have education clearly, maybe they like our housekeeping Olympics, I don't know, but there's fun things that we can do, very collaborative and and very hands on, and just, you know, definitely smaller than the national conference, but very impactful. And so for me, it's not either or, it's both.

Jodi Refosco  
Yeah, I probably go along the same line, you know? I feel like there's like, we all believe in education, we're all believing in advocacy, right? We're, you know, at VR may right now, we're focusing on advocacy. We're focusing on the membership and the content we're giving to our members. We have the VRP Council, which we are the everybody that knows VR. HP, it came in and merged with VR. Our May, and 2019 2020 I think. And then, you know, we're working with the council now, which my husband, well, you guys have Dirk. You know, Dirk and my husband, Joe, has been on, I think he was the president of VRP for like, six or seven years. I was like, Don't you have, like, a don't you go off at any time. Why are you the president forever, but we merge together, so the VR, VHP is a big thing for us. But no, I don't think it's either or either you like. I think there's things that you're going to find that are that matter to you as a member. And you know, I feel like, just like I said, there's, there's going to be a lot of different associations to join. And you gotta pick what you think feel. You know that vibes best with you. And you know vrma, yes, we've been around. This is our 40th year, which, when I say I've been in business 25 years, I've been in part of VR may for that long because, like, I was like the college kid that went along with my parents to the conferences

and so like, yeah, we've been around forever, but that also means we have to learn to pivot and move and change and fight, because our members are moving. So I think it's, I don't know, I think it's not an either or. I think is, you know, hey, you're going to have to find who vibes best with you. And you know, you try. We're all educating, and we're all going to bring some different aspects to the game. So, yeah, I think you should check us along.

Annie Holcombe  
I love that, and I agree with you. I just was curious to see if there was any differentiators. And so if somebody wants to join, could they get a deal to join both? Oh, so

Jodi Refosco  
those are conversations to be

Annie Holcombe  
I mean, I'm on the membership committee for vrma, so, like, I'm thinking, like, how do we, how do we, like, parlay this into something bigger and, like, help everybody out, right? So

Matt Tesdall  
it's interesting. That'd be great.

Jodi Refosco  
Like, that was something, so go back to Michelle acavela, back in the day, that was something that we've tried to do. Like, if you're a member of a local Alliance, like NC VR May, or northeast VR mayor, or whatever it'd be. How do you How can you make it membership? I think at the time, logistics was difficult and it just didn't make sense. But yet we could. There's other ways to go about it. Like, I've talked to Anne about, like, well, like, Wouldn't it be cool to have like, you know, VR nations, or Amy high note, or whoever, come in and do a session at one of our conferences and vice versa, like we're, yeah, but as far as membership, I don't know. I think there is logistics there, but it is something that's been talked about for like, a decade. So, yeah, it's, I'm sure there's just ways to work something out.

Annie Holcombe  
Well, let's throw it out in the universe and make it so, yeah, Ann and Heidi

Heidie Henriksen  
like membership from a property manager or an individual host perspective, but it also applies on the vendor side, right? There's a lot of vendors out there thinking, who should I support? Right? It's not an either or. It should be a both. We've had a lot of vendors come our way have been incredibly supportive, which is fantastic, and they're 100% backing vrma as well. And while our board of directors is all vacation rental management company owners, we have six advisory boards that are comprised of individuals from all over the industry, vendors, property managers, individual hosts, thought leaders. So we're trying to bring everybody together in that sense, and have a common voice on how we approach the industry, what we do with the association. But there's definitely, there's room for the vendors to participate on both sides. I completely agree there.

Alex Husner  
Yeah, I think there is a ton of power in just the whole mindset there of it's not, or it's and, and you know, what does that mean? We always talk about collaboration over competition, but collaboration and competition like it's not or for, for any of these so I love that, and I think this is something that's been needed within our industry for a long time. So it's, it's super exciting to see it in front of us and and see how this is going to play out this year.

Anne Gardner  
Well, absolutely. I mean, I think that it's, it's a great opportunity for us to to look at how we are able to serve our industry and in those supportive ways. And, you know, part of, part of this is, even if we're offering a similar program, you know, everyone has their own way of doing it, right. And so, you know, just look at the differentiation within our operators and our companies. And so it's, it's always a different flavor and an opportunity to improve and enhance and build upon what we all have done and say, you know, I personally am really invigorated and inspired by what you know, our colleagues are doing with VR nation. And I think it just, it just helps sharpen everyone and brings us all forward. And so it, I find it invigorating and stimulating, and can't wait to. See how things develop for us, though.

Matt Tesdall  
Yeah, Iron sharpens. Iron,

Alex Husner  
exactly. It's another good one too. Yeah, very cool. Well, we

Heidie Henriksen  
heart and soul of this industry, I feel, is your biggest competitor taking you over to meet the lead that you've been trying to get in touch with for the last six months, right? We are all in this to put together to get ahead, and it's not an all for one mentality. So

Alex Husner  
yeah, glad we're all

Annie Holcombe  
competition. As we always say on the show, it's competition. Yeah,

Alex Husner  
exactly. Well, super awesome having you guys here today, and we can't wait to be in attendance at these shows this spring. I know, personally, I'll be at VR nation and the VR may executive Summit. And Annie, you're going to VR nation, correct? Yep, awesome. Well, we can't wait to hear how it goes after after all of them, and maybe we'll do a recap before we go into the fall to hear how everything went. But thank you guys so much, and we appreciate everything that you do for the industry, and just your your true passion towards just helping out, because this, this is not an easy job that any of you have, and not even your main job, except for maybe Anne or Anne. Heidi, are you full time too? Heidi, I am. Yes, you are okay, so you guys do, but yeah, awesome. Well, if anybody wants to reach out, we're going to put your contact information in the show notes. Just be easier to do that. But if anyone wants to get in touch with Annie and I, you can go to Alex and Annie podcast.com and until next time, thanks for tuning in, everybody. Thank

Matt Tesdall  
you. Thanks everybody. Thanks

Anne Gardner  
so much. Thanks, everyone. You.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai