Spontaneous Stays: How Staywatch is Revolutionizing Last-Minute Bookings with CEO, Zach Busekrus

Alex Husner  0:00  
Welcome to Alex and Annie: the real women of vacation rentals. 

I'm Alex 

Annie Holcombe  0:20  
and I'm Annie, 

Alex Husner  0:21  
And we are joined today with Zach Busekrus, who is the CEO of stay watch, and I would say probably the coolest name of a guest we've had on the show, Zach, it's so good to see you today. 

Zach Busekrus  0:33  
Yeah, thank you guys so much for for having me on. It's been super fun to get to know you guys a little bit through the podcast. And Annie, I've had you on my show, Alex, we've got to get you on on my show soon, but yeah, thank you guys for the opportunity. I'm excited to be here. 

Annie Holcombe  0:50  
Yeah, so you did mention I did get to come on your show, and that was a lot of fun. And we've been following you on LinkedIn, and you just all of a sudden, it seems like you just popped out of nowhere and, like, jumped into our world and we're greater for it, and we've enjoyed watching you. But why don't you tell everybody a little bit about yourself and how you came to be in the STR space? 

Zach Busekrus  1:09  
Yeah. So the long, long story short is that I'm a growth marketer by trade, so I love all things marketing kind of grew up in the agency world, built a small, niche media company in a totally different industry, and then actually it was during covid So my wife and I were living in a small, 700 square foot apartment in downtown Washington, DC, and we had actually just got married in late 2019, so right before the pandemic hit, and when the pandemic hit, we were both on work calls right in This very, very small space. It was a tough start to the marriage to say the least. You know, you learn a lot about your spouse and how they work right when you're literally working right next to her. Yeah? And so we're like, we gotta, we gotta do something. We gotta get out of here. So we, we decided to break our lease, and my wife is an attorney, so she worked some legal magic. We were able to get out of our lease, and we decided to just hop around the country and stay, actually exclusively on Airbnb for the next year and a half. So we'd find a cool short term rental on Airbnb. We'd book it for a few days, and then we'd find the next day after that, and along the way, just fell in love with really like these, these hosts, these, these property managers who were giving us these incredible experiences and really sort of like creating a home away from home, like quite literally for us. And realized there was something really special about travel on this space, and wanted to learn more. And I am a I was doing podcasting in my previous life, so I decided to start a podcast. We started a newsletter company that really focused on bringing last minute deals on short term rentals to folks. So anyways, that's that's the short version, believe it or not, of how I got to where I am today. And it's been such an honor, quite frankly, to learn from people like the two of you who've really built careers in this space. There's so much more I need to learn, but it's been a it's been amazing journey so far, everyone's so welcoming, everyone's so hospitable, everyone's so eager to give of themselves, which you really just don't find in a lot of other industries. 

Alex Husner  3:16  
Yeah, that's definitely true, and we talk about that a lot on the show that this is, it's such a unique industry, and I think everybody's just very connected because there is a lot of information sharing and there's a lot of questions, because there is no guidebook on short term rentals or vacation rentals, and you can learn a lot and skip a lot of headaches and dummy tax just by being around The right people and asking the right questions. But interesting to hear how you went to so many different Airbnbs also. I mean, that had to have been a great experience just for you to really understand and like see the difference between ones that were doing it well ones that weren't doing it well. Any interesting stories from those travels? 

Zach Busekrus  3:57  
Yeah. I mean, there are so many. One that comes to mind is we actually only ever left one place, and which, you know, we sitting close to 100 during this kind of, like, year and a half, right? So we got, we got a lot of different spaces, from, like, you know, really cool chic, like condos in the city to, you know, more rural, like farmhouses and like everything in between. But we, we did end up leaving one place due to, like, there was, like a mouse infestation, which, you know, was we were in, like, we were in, like, rural Vermont, right? So, to be fair, we were, you know, in, we were in the home of the mice, but it was so bad. And actually, like, this is, this is really one of the things. This was the first issue we ever encountered, was we had to, we had to argue profusely with the property manager to try to get any sort of refund for for the stay. We asked if they could come and send somebody to take care of the situation. But, I mean, they were, like, loads of, not loads there were, there was at least a handFull of like, mice that were just running around at all hours of the day. There was clearly a problem. And it was not a cheap place to stay. It was, you know, quite, quite expensive actually. And really it was, I feel like, in that moment where I realized, like, wow. You know, the hospitality part of this is so important, right? And the reality is, you can book a really nice stay, but if you don't have a great host or a great property manager that is willing to work with you, it really does make all the difference. It's like, who cares how expensive the stay is? When you're working with somebody that's really difficult, that doesn't communicate well, they were incredibly, like, unresponsive to you, which was very annoying.

It really sort of like left a sour taste in my mouth. And actually, unfortunately, from that point on, we like, never booked with a professional management company again, because we were like, because up until that point, we had only booked through folks who looked like, maybe like Hobby hosts, maybe some of them were had co hosting businesses. And this was the first time we had actually stated that at a property that had a, you know, well known Property Management name behind it, and and it was just a very sour experience. And I know that that's not representative of, you know, folks who are doing incredible work in the space, but, yeah, that was, that was one story that might be of of interest to your audience, is treat treat your people well, especially if you know they used to staying with hobby like, you know, you know hosts that have one or two stays, you know, owner operated places, if you're a boutique Hospitality Management Company and boutique vacation rents management company being, being as responsive, or more responsive than I might, you know, expect from A hobby host, I think makes all the difference in this industry, especially for guests that are that are newer to these sorts of travel experiences. 

Annie Holcombe  6:47  
Yeah, we talk about it all the time, about how you really need to have that hospitality gene to be long term successful. And there was a lot of people that sort of jumped into this space with this notion of, like, you know, the get rich quick. You're going to get in, you're going to rent a bunch of units, you're going to make a bunch of money, and you're going to get out really quick. And going to get out really quick. And I think that that lent itself for some people that were, you know, maybe not the best hospitable people in it, but it is unfortunate that you would run across a professional manager that wouldn't be of the caliber that you would expect. I mean, it certainly doesn't, doesn't bode well for that market. Well, I don't know. Maybe it does. Maybe it does. Maybe it says that there's, there's somebody else that can come in and take their, you know, take their inventory away from them, do a better job. But you walked away from that thinking, like, Okay, I, you know, I like these experiences. I like these stays. So how did you come up with you? You were calling it spontaneous, yeah? You just, you said, you just rebranded it. 

Zach Busekrus  7:41  
We just rebranded to stay watch, yeah, because, quite frankly, spontaneous, which was the name that I loved, but admittedly, it's a very hard name to say, and it's a very hard name to remember to spell. And, I mean, the whole idea, right, was like we were bringing your last name, busekrus,

Alex Husner  7:57  
I'll never forget your last name, but I won't be able it's not sell it at all, like, what it is not

Speaker 1  8:02  
phonetic. It is not phonetic, but, but,

Zach Busekrus  8:06  
yeah, I mean, so, I mean, the whole idea of right, was we would find these really cool last minute deals. So I know that you guys have had the folks from from wimstay on the podcast, and they've got, like, a whole OTA, like, dedicated to, like, last minute stays, right? Our model was a little bit different in that it was, you'd sign up and you'd request and you'd say, hey, like, I want to track deals in this part of the country or this state or this zip code or whatever it is, right? And then what we would do is, if there was a deal that matched your criteria over the next 30 days, we'd send you an email, right? And it'd be like, hey, like, here are like, 10 of the top STRS vacation rentals that match your, your trip criteria. You know, they're all discounted. Go ahead and book them, and we'd send them to either the OTA directly, or, if it was one of our host partners, folks that were, you know, paying to be spontaneous at the time members, we'd send the the user to their direct booking site to kind of complete that, that transaction there. So anyways, spontaneous was this, like last minute Airbnb deals, sort of newsletter. Over time, we realized, as I learned a lot more about the industry, I learned about the whole book direct movement, I learned a lot about how many incredible operators who've really done incredible jobs at building boutique brands in the space existed. And we thought, how do we how do we help service the industry a little bit more broadly. How do we help introduce our travelers who are looking for vacation rents? How do we introduce them to, like, direct booking sites? Like, how do we get them, you know, more connected to professional managers and or just, you know, owner operated stays that are crushing it and doing doing really well. So the the idea of rebrand to stay watch was really to get a name that was easier to spell for folks, and then, quite frankly, a name that aligned a little bit more with what we do. So today, right? People go on, stay watch. They create trips. You want to go somewhere for Christmas. You go and you say, hey, I want deals between now and December 25 for a week I have Family. I'm gonna there's gonna be four of us. We're looking for a minimum of two beds, two baths, price range of, you know, 300 to $600 a night. And then what staywash will do is it will curate deals across Airbnb, verbo and booking.com and bring you a curated list every day or every week or every month, depending on the frequency that you want. And then you as the as the traveler, kind of just get something fresh every day of new listings for you to look at that that might, you know, match your match your trip needs. And then what we do for vacation rental managers and operators is we say, hey, like we've got 20,000 plus people that are looking for stays. If you become one of our partners, we'll send you know, them to your direct booking site will guarantee that your listings get featured in the emails that we're sending to travelers. So that's all the pitching I'll do today. But that, in a nutshell, is what state watches. 

Alex Husner  10:51  
Yeah, no, I love it, and I think the name is perfect and very indicative of what you do. I mean, it's like tracking Google Flights, right? And that's so convenient for people if they don't have to book right away, but they know where they want to go and they don't want to have to go back to Airbnb or verbo, and just check every single day. And it's not always easy to tell and which listings have been dropped in price unless you're actually following one individually. So yeah, that's really cool. How are you so if a customer comes to you. I mean, what? How are they engaging with stay watch like, is it that they're are they connecting their PMS to you to be able to get those listings, or do they just connect the individual listings with you?

Zach Busekrus  11:31  
 So right now, we're actually, I'm not sure, exactly sure when this podcast will will release, but we're announcing a big partnership with guesty Next week. So we will, there are first large PMS that we'll be integrating with directly. But what most folks do is they just go and we've got our own. It's a very simple set of process. You add your listing, or your portfolio of listings, and if it's, you know, at a certain scale, we do all the work for you, so you don't have to spend time, like, you know, creating each listing manually, but, yeah, it's a pretty simple process. Folks come in and we get their stuff set up, and then, and then that's it. That's all they have to do. And then anytime there's, like, a match, right? Of let's say, you know, Alex, let's say that you want to go to Montana next summer, right? And you and your partner are like, hey, we want a really cool, like Yellowstone, like, type getaway, and, and, and, you know, you don't, you're not going to be looking on an OTA or direct booking sites, right, every single day between now and next summer, because that's just, that's just a lot of time, like you're busy, right? Yeah. But stay watch could do is it could bring you stays every single day to your inbox that you could just browse through. You know, the odds of you actually going and clicking on them in any given day might be small, right? But it's almost sort of this just constant, almost like Zillow, like if you, if you're ever in the market for, like, a house, or if you want to go buy a new vacation rental, you might track a zip code, right? And you get those emails every day. You might scroll through the email every day. Maybe one in every 10 emails you click through, and maybe you end up going and connecting with a realtor, you know, one one in every 100 emails. So we're sort of trying to be like that, that passive, like reminder to people that like, Oh, hey, like your stays cut, your trip is coming up. Here's like, an exceptional list of, you know, curated stays that match all of your your filtering, all of your criterias, and when you're ready, we hope that you do go and book, and we hope that you do go and book directly with the host or the property manager. So that's our ultimate objective. Is to give more more data, more access to folks who do care about building a list of their their own guests, as opposed to just funneling everything through, through the OTAs. 

Annie Holcombe  13:39  
Now, do you see, do you right now you're doing stays, do you see yourself being able to tap into, like, the experiences in the market, so like shows in New York, or, you know, attractions in various cities? Is that something that you think you'll get into? 

Zach Busekrus  13:55  
I think that that would be amazing. I think that that's probably like two it's probably not totally aligned with with where we're trying to ultimately go. I mean, candidly, I've never talked about this publicly before, but what we really want to do, too, is get graduate in search in sort of, like the boutique hotel space, like we don't want to be like a, you know, hotel.com or one of these big like Expedia is like, where it's just kind of everything. And really the reason for that is, you know, the independent operators, independent owners and operators. And I would say that, you know, vacation rental management companies, many of many of them, are not the vacasas of the world, right? Many of the folks tuning into this podcast, right? Are small business owners, quite frankly, or like medium sized owners, right? And so how do you equip medium size to small business owners with with more data about like, what people are looking for, what people are interested in, and and the OTAs, they have all this data, right? So if you're logged into your Airbnb account, Airbnb knows everything that you're looking at. They know everything that you're filtering. They know when, when you click to the price filters. They know that you know Zach looks For say is between 103 $100 a night, and Annie looks for say is between $500 and $1,000 a night. Like they know all of this information right about you, but, but you, as the property manager, you don't have that information. And quite frankly, most people's technology stacks are just like, they're not at a point right where, where, even if they own, even if they have a great direct booking site, like, even if you use boostly, or you used, you know, Hudson Creative Studio to create, like, an awesome site for you, you still don't have access to prospective guest data. So what we're ultimately trying to do is say, like, Okay, if we know that people are in market, like, they're searching for, stays in this in these particular regions of the world, right? And if we know what they want to spend and what they're looking for, how do we help connect some of that data to to people that own and operate their own businesses? So how do we essentially give some of the data that the OTAs have, but make it accessible to sort of the independent business owner? So that's ultimately what we're trying to do. We have a long way, you know, to go to get there, but, um, but yeah, that's, that's what gets me excited. Is like, how do you empower people with great data, great access, great tooling, so that they can continue to build really remarkable brands and businesses in the space.

Alex Husner  16:07  
And how are you driving traffic to stay watch? 

Zach Busekrus  16:10  
So if you Google like last minute Airbnb deals like, we rank number one. So a big, a big sort of like, funnel of our traffic is people that are just Googling like last minute vacation rental deals, like, you know, last minute Airbnb deals. So a lot of our traffic comes organically through, through that, and then yet, I mean, it really has been word of mouth, like, we haven't done any, like, paid advertising or anything like that. And again, like, we're, you know, we're not huge, right? We've got about 20,000 just over 20,000 folks who've, you know, created trips with state. Watch, there's, they're following specific locations around the world. But, you know, we're not, we don't have like, 2 million subscribers or anything like that. So, so, you know, the audience is still fairly niche. But what is really interesting is, right? Is just seeing like, oh, there's a lot of people that will go and track locations where there are very few vacation rentals, right? So like, yeah, we know people are in market for these places in Costa Rica, and they're just like, aren't offerings, right? So we get, we get pinged like, and notified when it's like, oh, like, Annie created a watch list for these five places, and like, there's two vacation rentals in those markets, but she said she wants to spend up to $1,000 a night like, so we want to find ways to, you know, take this information and be able to give it to give it to people, to, you know, make better decisions, of, hey, maybe the next vacation rental that you open, or maybe you want to start a management company in this, in this part of the world, because there's a lot of demand and very little supply. So again, long road to get there, but that's, that's what we'd love to do. 

Speaker 1  17:37  
No,

Alex Husner  17:37  
No, I love that. And what a great way for you to be able to go get inventory from partners too, to say, you know, we don't have, or we only have a few properties in this one area, but we've got a bunch of people that are watching this destination. And I think that's one area that most OTAs that are, like the newer OTAs within our space, really, you know, have failed to do, is that they they want to tackle the entire country or world, and they really don't have a great plan of how they're going to drive any reasonable amount of traffic that's going to make it worth it to, you know, move forward or do an integration to get your properties listed. But if, if an OTA comes to you and says, we already have this demand for this area, that's a heck of a lot more powerful to get somebody to say, okay, and to be the first mover in an area also is a big advantage, yeah, 100%

Annie Holcombe  18:25  
so I wanted to kind of pivot over to your podcast, because that's obviously you're on a podcast with podcasters, and we're always intrigued by when we started, kind of our thought process was just really, the joke is, you know, after two glasses of wine, you always make really good decisions. And so Alex and I have made some really amazing decisions, really truly great decisions. This. It just it. We just, we really get real creative about the things. And so it's been a really fun journey for us. And so meeting other people that found, like, the that they got the bug and they got into it. And so I'd love to hear, like, what you like, how you came about doing your podcast, and your core listener, and what your mission is with it, yeah, yeah. 

Zach Busekrus  19:09  
Well, I, I've been like a nerd when it comes to podcasts, probably since like 20, 2018 which was when I launched my, my first podcast, again, in a totally different industry. And, you know, I think the coolest thing about podcasts is, what podcasts enable you to do is it enables you to sort of discover nuance in people, right? And there's really a lack of like mediums that allow for me to realize that like Annie isn't just a 62nd you know, YouTube short, right, or Instagram reel, and we live in a world right, where, where media is so is so quick, right? It's been everything is so chopped up into a sound bite. And, you know, depending on where you look and how closely you look like, you might have a really interesting perspective on somebody that could be entirely false. That's because that perspective was built off of like, 62nd clips of them, right? That are, or even 15 second clips of them. And, you know, I think that, I think that, you know, it's not anything new to say that people don't trust traditional media anymore, and people are looking for other ways to access information, right? That that's been said and by people that are a lot smarter than me, but, but what I like to think about is like the medium of podcasting really allows you to understand the nuance and layers that we all carry. Like that exist in all of us. Like every single one of us is nuanced, right? We don't have none of us are just like black and white in terms of how we think about things, whether that be a personal, you know, challenge, a business challenge, right? A political challenge, whatever it is, like we're all very nuanced. And this medium, because it is long formed, and because most podcasts, while slightly edited, are not that edited, at least, you know, most of the ones that I like and I listen to, they're pretty raw, and you just don't get a lot of rawness in the world anymore. And so I've always loved the medium, because you can connect with people and really understand, like, how they think and why they think the way that they think. And we just like, that's missing from the world today, and it's sad that it's missing from the world today, but in large part it is. So that's, that's sort of like, where my love of like, podcasting started. 

Alex Husner  21:15  
Yeah, it's such a good point. And I think I started listening to podcasts right around when you did it was like 2018 that the first one I listened to was the fuel hotel Marketing podcast. Now it's just the hotel marketing podcast, but we've had Stuart Butler and Pete DeMeo on our show that used to be on that, and it was probably three or four of them that worked at this marketing agency, specific in the travel industry, and they got together every Friday, and they had a beer and they talked about, I mean, just, like, incredible content, but it was so fun to listen to them, because you could tell one they had a great camaraderie between their group there. And it's like you just, you felt like you were, were part of it. And I think, yeah, what you said is so true that it's like you get to hear these authentic conversations. And we have people that come up to us all the time, and, you know, they feel like they know everything about us because they listen to the show. And, I mean, we're definitely very real, I think, on this and you get to see all of our crazy nuances, which is good or bad, but it's, it is it's, I agree with you. There's different podcasts, some that are great just for information, if you're trying to learn things, but then there's others where it's a mix of learning, but also listening to an interesting conversation at the same time, and they definitely become addictive. Now, if I'm getting ready, if I'm on a drive, like I have to have something playing in the background, and it's typically one of my favorite podcasts.

Zach Busekrus  22:41  
Yeah, yeah. I couldn't. I couldn't agree with you more. I think it's just such a special like channel and such a special medium. And quite frankly, Alex, you and I were talking about this briefly yesterday, right? There's a lot of people that I've been fortunate enough to talk to. You guys might feel similarly that I know that if I were to say, hey, could I have an hour of your time for like, a coffee or a beer or whatever. These are busy people. They're people, right? Like, you know, peons like me, but if I invite them onto a podcast, it's for the same amount of time, it's like, oh yes. Like, when absolutely, you know, this amazing networking tool, and then, and then, once you're having a conversation with somebody, and you're like, Oh, you're cool. I'm, you know, I'm, I think I'm kind of cool, like, you connect, right? Like, the conversation, and you're inspired, you've had a good time, right? And, and then, you know, people walk away, and they think, Oh, wow. Like, that person is really, like, way cooler or way, way more interesting than, than I would have thought. And you would have never had that opportunity, especially as, like, a young entrepreneur, right? Of you would have never had that opportunity if you had asked somebody to meet for coffee or a beer, because they would have said no, right, like, and so I think that this is also just a really special, like, networking tool, and I know for me right, coming back to the industry here, right, I had done podcasts in a totally different industry, I feel like I've had a master class right, in vacation rental marketing, in understanding who's who, and understanding, like, the, you know, crazy world of PMS is, and like the PMS is, and all people have about peanut like, I just, I feel like I've had this crash course, and the number of times I've been interviewing somebody on my podcast, and then they've said something like, oh, well, you know, like, You know, so and so. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Write down, like, you know, Travis Wilburn. Like, who is that? Like, oh, He'll be so happy if he's listening. Figure out who he is, right? And so anyways, point being that it's an incredible vehicle to learn. It's an incredible vehicle to build relationships, and I think, quite frankly, it's an incredible vehicle to bring incredible vehicle to broaden perspectives. And I think for anyone listening who thinks that they have an idea for a shell, like, don't listen to all the haters that say there are too many podcasts out there. Do it for you. Like, do it. Do it. Do it as a networking tool. Um, if nothing else, you know, last thing I'll say here, too, on just podcasting generally, is that, like. Uh, very few people ever ask how big your audience is, right? Like, when you when you connect with people like, I think maybe I've, I've been asked I don't know one in every 3040, maybe even 50 times I've been I've interviewed like 500 people over the course of my podcasting career. Only a handful have ever been like Zach. I'm only going to come on the show if you can guarantee you know that it's going to hit 10,000 listens in the first week. Yeah, like people, people don't, most people don't ever even ask the question, right? So there have been times where I've interviewed people for for previous shows that I've, that I've had, I had like 50 100, couple 100 listeners, right? And big, big personalities in those respective industries would come on my show, and I'm thinking, like, oh my gosh, only like, 49 people are going to listen to this. And just, I'm just praying that they don't ask how, like, big my audience is, anyways, point being that very few people actually ask us ask that question, which I think should just give people encouragement that, like, at the end of the day, you know, if you have an idea and it's around podcasting. Go for it, because I think the world needs more nuance. 

Annie Holcombe  26:04  
Yeah, I think we have a industry friend that's a speaker, and one of the things that she always talks about is like, when you're up speaking and presenting, it's like you don't have to connect to everybody in the audience. You just need to connect to one person, and that one person is the one that's going to carry you forward through whatever you know group that you're in. And so not to say that we want to, don't want to connect with more than one person, but it's like, I think, for every episode that we do, every topic that we cover, there's one or two people out there that are just like mind blown. They've learned something from it, and then they become invested in in that topic and really go forward with it, and to your point of connecting with people. I mean, the doors that it is open, both for Alex and I, professionally, personally and just from the building of our confidence in the industry and knowing that like this, like I know, for me, for myself, but the tapestry of experience that I have while, you know, on paper, it seems a little disjointed. It all works together really, really well. And the podcast kind of gave me that perspective to understand that, like all of these pieces and parts are very important and complimentary to all the pieces and parts that Alex has. So I think that the more people understand that about themselves and their experience, know that if you might only have five years and one but something that you did previous to that, and something that you're about to do is all going to fit together just so and there's somebody out there that needs to, needs to know about it and hear it 100% Yeah, totally, totally agree

Alex Husner  27:29  
there, yeah, yeah. It's, it's been a fun journey. I completely agree. We have said this many times on the show that same thing that you said, Zach, that it's like there were people, especially in our early days that we would reach out to to ask them to come on. We're like, if we reached out to them through our job for, you know, to talk or even just entertain, whatever it was we were selling at the moment, they would have said no. But the door, the doors that it opens, are quite remarkable. But so I'm curious. I mean, where, where do you want to take the show? Like, what are, what are your goals for it at this point? 

Zach Busekrus  28:03  
Yeah, well, I mean, I guess, just to give the listeners to a little bit of sense of the show, because, you know, one of the cool things about the vacation rental and short term rental spaces, there are, there are loads of podcasts right now, right? So, like, you can, you can go take your pick of there's awesome ones that are a little bit more investment focused. There's folks who, there's, there's great shows for folks that, you know, identify as, like Airbnb hosts and might just, you know, have a couple listings that they co host right then they're, they're incredible shows for folks who are much further along in their journey and have large portfolios and are really trying to, you know, build and sell businesses in this space. So there's, there's a plethora of great content out there. I think the content that, um, that I just am interested in personally and really where the niche search that I'm trying to carve out for behind the stays is folks who are kind of building, uh, unique stays. A lot of folks who have, maybe they had their companies, had exits. They are entrepreneurs by trade, and they love hospitality, and they want to go, and they want to build, like, next generation, really cool, unique stays for the next generation of travelers. So I've had a lot of folks on my show who are building, you know, tree house resorts, uh, incredible, like dome glamping sites. People that are are all into like, the mirror houses, which is like a new sort of, like trend in the unique space, a lot of like the quote, unquote, Instagram famous Airbnb folks, right? A lot of them listen to my show and then have have also come on and shared their story on on my show. But in terms of like, where, where I want to take the show, I mean, what I believe is that, and this is just because of the podcast I listen to, I get, I get so inspired right in my day to day. And two of my, you know, one of my favorite podcasts is the My first million podcasts, which I don't know if either of you have heard of, but Sampar Sean Perry, they're, you know, internet, like, tech guys and and they started this podcast, and it's totally like, I've listened to it for like, four years now. So Really changed my life there. The premise of the show is they kind of just brainstorm like business ideas together, right? Like they just kind of, they're really, really good friends. They've both built their prospective businesses. And it's sort of like you walk into a brainstorm with two super funny dynamic but smart people. And I love, I love, I get so much joy out of listening to them, even if, even if, even if half the things I don't agree with, or half the things I think are stupid ideas, it just brings me a lot of joy. So if we can, if I can, create something similar to that for folks who aspire to one day, you know, build a tree house, right? Or, you know, maybe, maybe they've done vacation rental management for the last, you know, decade, they've got a cool portfolio, maybe they want to try to exit that, and then maybe they want to take the, you know, earnings from that and go and build their own thing, right? And do it for the sake of of the thing itself, maybe not so much the sake of the business or how much money it could make. I like connecting with entrepreneurs that want to do new, novel things in hospitality and travel, and that's, that's sort of who I hope to continue to network with in the show. One of the things that's been fun that I don't have an answer for, so if you guys have an answer for this, or if anyone's listening, I'd love support here, but I get so many, there's so many opportunities that have come from the show of people that are building really cool things but need capital, and or people that have capital but just like, don't want to spend the time like, building out a freaking Tree, tree, Hus resort, right, right? And so if I can be this, like, vehicle of connection between people with great ideas, and, you know, people with capital that are looking for places to deploy that capital, that that would just bring me a lot of joy, because essentially, you get to, you get to help solve a problem for two people, and you get to help, you know, help somebody else, bring their dream to life, if you're the entrepreneur in that case. So I'd love to see the show grow into this, this marketplace of connection for between entrepreneurs doing really cool things in hospitality and, you know, the res, the people that have resources, financial and otherwise, to be able to empower those folks to, you know, go, go, build their dreams. So to speak,

Speaker 1  32:04  
I love that.

Alex Husner  32:05  
What a great answer to the question.

Annie Holcombe  32:08  
Absolutely, I'm a passionate people connector myself. So I think that it definitely brings me a lot of joy to be even if I can't necessarily fix what they're trying to solve, or solve what they're trying to fix, whatever. You know, the angle is, it's just like getting new people together that you think could have, like that synergy or just a spark. Yeah, super exciting. So I can see why you'd want to do that. Yeah, oh, sorry. Go ahead. You can continue if

Alex Husner  32:38  
start again. No,

Unknown Speaker  32:39  
I was just I had nothing interesting to say.

Alex Husner  32:45  
So I was reading in the notes when you registered for the show. And there's something interesting in here that I wanted to get your thoughts on. The biggest thing that direct booking movement gets wrong and the biggest thing that it gets right. I'm really curious to hear what your thoughts are on this. This this is one of my favorite things to talk about. So I'm so glad that you saved the best for last.

Zach Busekrus  33:08  
I mean, I guess I have a confession to make, so I've gotten into some like, not heated, but I've gotten into some discussions on on social media, with folks who are veterans in the space who've built, like, incredible who you know, who were doing this great work long before the world even knew what Airbnb was, right? And then here I come, and I'm like, this, like, Oh, I just like, like, I call everything an Airbnb, right? It's sort of how was it me that you argued with because that's a possibility a little bit, but yeah, no, no, I've gotten into some other arguments with folks that are incredible folks, and I'm friends with them, and it's mostly just for, you know, for play and intellectual curiosity, like conversation, yeah, how do we tease out these important, you know, discussions? Because the reality is, you know, my grandma, who's 86 years old, she calls everything in Airbnb, as is my 17 year old. Sorry if that's the reality that we're living in, like, it's at least important to, like, discuss and think through, right? It's not, it's not intellectually honest, to ignore it, I guess is ultimately what I'm saying. Yeah. So how this relates the direct booking movement is, I, I feel, I have felt pretty passionate that, um, if you're if you're an owner operator, situation, right? If you've got one stay, it's very hard to make the argument that it's worth building out a whole direct booking infrastructure if you've got one, if you've got one stay. And there are a lot of people that push this message that it doesn't matter, even if you have one, you've got to go do all these things. And I see people wasting so much time and so much money trying to, you know, build out these solutions, and it's like, honestly, like, 95% of your bookings are still going to come through Airbnb. And like Airbnb, you can love it, you can hate it. They do a lot for you, and the cost of what they do, from just like a product standpoint, is, is actually very, very small. People. Like to hit on their margins. And like, I understand that it's not, it's a complicated problem. But the reality is, if you've got one stay, or maybe even two stays, it's you have to be very, very, very convincing that it's worth building any sort of direct booking infrastructure. You got to be very honest about the numbers and the resources and the time, and I don't, quite frankly, think that a lot of the folks in the quote, unquote direct booking movement are as candid as they need to be about just what effort it takes to not be solely reliant on OTAs. It's a lot of work. And anyone that tells you that it's easy is, is smoking crack? Quite frankly, that's a valid Yeah, absolutely, very hard now, yeah, what? What I've come to realize, right? And actually, I've had a couple people on my show. People have DM to me, private messages I had. I shared a story on my show a few weeks ago of somebody who lost that has a life ban from Airbnb. They lost everything. They lost their entire business. They had, you know, I think 25 properties owned. Five of them managed the other the other 20, and he threw a huge misunderstanding, got a life ban from it, from Airbnb. He's had to shut down his business, and he has to go do something else. He's, you know, a father. He's got, you know, several children. It's a devastating story. So hearing stories like that and and now meeting more people who are vested in the industry and can't and can give me a broader perspective, what I have come to realize is that the thing that the direct booking movement gets really right, is that if you are serious about building a business and you want to be an entrepreneur in this space like any entrepreneur, you have to diversify your channels, right, like you, you would be really, really dumb or any investor, right? No, no great investor will tell you that all of their eggs are in one basket, right? And people have said versions of this to kingdom come. So I'm not saying anything new here. What I think the solution is, and this is what I don't see enough people talking about in the direct book movement, is, how do you help empower whether it's local operators, whether it's you know, folks that just have one or two stays, how do you empower them to join collectives and like alliances, so so that they can kind of build out the direct booking, sort of, like infrastructure, together and share costs. So an example of this is, like, I'm just going to pick on, like, the unique stays, because I know that area a little bit better if there are a bunch of a frames right in in Colorado, right, like, let's, and there are, like, news flash, there's a lot of a frames in Colorado. What would happen if all the A frame owners and property managers in Colorado got together and said, Hey, let's, let's make an alliance, the A frame of Colorado Alliance, or something like that. Let's build a soft brand, like a direct booking site, essentially, and let's just call it a frames in Colorado, and then we're not going to charge any fees. There's no platform fees. We're all just going to, you know, equally, put in a little bit of cash to cover website development costs, to cover, you know, maybe some simple email costs. And then let's use this as an SEO play, right? So that when people are googling, I want to stay in an A frame Airbnb or I want to stay in a frame vacation rental, your site ranks really well. You go, you go, you click on the site, and then you go, and you pick the A frame that you want, and whichever a frame that you want, like that owner or that manager, right, gets, gets the lead, gets, get, gets the guest booking, etc. And so that might sound like a little bit of a silly example, but I think that there's huge opportunity to build essentially, sort of like these, these micro OTAs, without fees. And if you have, and you could do this in a number of ways, you could do this by property type, like the A frame example I gave. It could also just be, like, regional, right? Like, what does it look like to get a network of homes in a particular region, popular vacation rental markets, like areas in Florida? How do you all come together to build up that infrastructure? And if you can do that right, you can dramatically minimize the cost to building out these direct booking infrastructures. And this is not a forever solution by any means, and it's not necessarily, you know, don't do your own thing. You know, do this instead. But I think if you're just starting out, and you need the technical power without the risk that is involved in kind of a traditional OTA. This is a really great kind of, like untapped thing, Travis, you know, from from the 100 collection. I know they're dabbling in something somewhat similar here, but I think that there's a lot of opportunity to do this at a smaller scale, a little bit more niche scale, in in folks, respective markets. So there's a very long winded answer to your question, but those are some of my my love and really just like challenge to the movement is, let's be a little bit more honest about what it costs to actually do this. Yeah, let's get creative and empower people with really concrete ideas on how they can split those costs, how they can share those costs, especially if they're just testing it out. And let's also be honest that for folks with one, two, maybe even three, stays, oftentimes relying on the OTAs is, is just worth it until, until you grow from there. 

Alex Husner  39:48  
Yeah, I completely agree with you. And I think that's something that is just not talked about enough that, you know, trying to get these individual hosts to think that they're going to build out this, you know, amazing book, direct brand. I. I mean, it just the math does not make sense on, you know, 123, listings if they're, especially if they're in different locations too. I mean, it, I've managed a $2 million advertising budget for a very large direct booking company, but that's a completely, I mean, we were able to do amazing things, but that's a very different world. And I think, you know, some of the people in our space just saying, you have to focus on this. It's like to what end though. I mean, not only the money that it's going to take, but the time that it's going to take you. And I agree that. I mean, the OTAs are, you know, hate them or love them. I mean, that is the vehicle that it makes. It makes sense. I mean, you don't want to have all your eggs in one basket. The example you gave is a perfect one that, you know, if, if you get banned for some reason, or, I mean, even if just Airbnb changes their algorithm, and you were getting great bookings, and now that's not not happening anymore, you have to be diverse, and that's where Annie's side of the world comes in on and really why direct bookings and distribution are so important, because they all play together in that same ecosystem. But I really think, I mean, the what individual hosts should be thinking about more is May, I mean, give the guests that you have the absolute best experience, give them a way that they can book direct, but don't focus all your efforts on trying to get everybody into that path, because it's just not going to happen. And yeah, I mean, the likelihood that somebody, you know, depending on where, where you're staying. I mean, even if you're staying in a very popular area, like a Myrtle Beach or Panama City Beach, if you're going back year after year, you're not always staying in the same place. I mean, sometimes you stay in the same beach home, but a lot of people, they they bounce around with where they're staying. So you're really, you're you're wishing and hoping on something that's going to be very hard to produce, but if you can make you have a direct booking site as something that is hasn't taken a crazy amount of time or money, and that's included in your post days, and you know when you communicate with the guests, so they know that option is there, and you will get some but it's not going to be groundbreaking, and just keep the distribution up. I think, to your point about the different microsites, I think that's also that's a good point. And in a lot of areas, that ends up being the destination marketing organization that does something similar the Chamber of Commerce, and the case here in Myrtle Beach that you know that's essentially very similar, that it is a co op that you're paying to be part of this association. In turn, there are different advertising opportunities to get more exposure through the website, where they're pushing other individual listings, or, you know, the company Direct website in itself. But I think the challenges with, if somebody was thinking, Okay, I'm going to go get all the A frames in this market and get everybody together, it still is a challenge, even if you're pooling money of time, and you know, who's leading it, who's in charge of it, you know, there's still a lot that can could be, you know, complicated, I guess, but I know from your mindset, because you're a growth marketer like this all is like, you could figure this out really quickly, but a lot of people, that's still still A challenge and a heavy lift, but I really like everything that you said and in that answer, and I agree that it needs to be something that's talked about more of don't give these people this false hope that they need to be spending all this money when they're not going to get anything near the return for their time or investment. 

Zach Busekrus  43:16  
Yeah. And on that note, too, you know, it takes a lot of work to build a brand, right? And yeah, and, yeah, building a brand. And really, like, people are like, complain about direct bookings, and why don't I get, you know, why? Why do I only get 3% 5% of direct bookings? And it's like, well, you know, quite frankly, your inventory is not very unique. And the reality is, and that's that's to be like, ashamed of. But it's like, look, unless you have really unique inventory, and unique, you know, can be interpreted in lots of different ways, but people, people that do really well with direct. I mean, I've got friends, I've got people on my podcast, 85 90% of their bookings are direct, like, they're all coming from Instagram and but that's because they have really cool stays that go viral on Instagram, right? Yeah, and that, and that, quite frankly, is just, like, not the reality for like, loads of people a regular condo. Yeah, exactly. Posting reels this, you know, there's only real you can post about a condo, quite frankly, exactly. There's nothing again, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just that is, that is what it's, what's true. And so people give all these people, these these ideas of, like, I need to build a brand, I need to do all this stuff. And it's like you're spinning your wheels. You're spending five hours a day trying to, like, work on a reel for Instagram, and you've got two condos, and you know, Myrtle Beach, your time is much better spent doing other things, right? Like, just be honest with yourself again, no shame if you do want to go and build a brand, amazing and you can build a brand. The fun thing about brand building is you can do it in so many different ways. You might not have the coolest stay, that's fine. How do you develop a personality for your stay? Right? Like, how do you get excited about, like, how do you, you know, come up with, you know, cool condos of Instagram, like, you come up with some sort of, like, right, right? You grow an odds right, of something that's not unique. You can totally do all of that. And if you do that, it'll work. You'll get direct book. Things, but yeah, that effort is is not it's not easy. It's not unless you're willing to go do the work of building a brand. You know, by and large, you're probably better spent putting that time and energy elsewhere. 

Annie Holcombe  45:13  
It's interesting that you say all this because it's like nextpax is doing some things kind of in this space to help out the people that don't have access to technology, specifically in Latin America, and like in Asia Pacific, there's just not a lot of technology options out there. And if they are, they're very expensive, and it's cost prohibitive, but it's just also like that education piece, like putting it together. And I was at a conference recently in Mexico and talking with some managers down there, and I was really struck by the amount of managers that have 567, 100 units. They have no technology. Everything's still on a spreadsheet. They're still writing reservations in a book. And first of all, like, blows my mind, because I've been in that size of a management like, I can't even imagine how they're doing it, and not being afraid that if they spilled their coffee on their notepad, like, what that would do to their reservations away Exactly. But I think you know you're spot on. And I think people need to also be be honest with themselves too, about when they get into it. Do they do they plan to what is their plan for the first first year, second year, fifth year, whatever. And be honest about that. Like, do you only want to stay with five units, that's great. Don't worry about it. Don't try to be a vicasa like you. Don't even have to use them as the benchmark of what it is. But I think Alex and I've done some some panels on some different conferences, and the conversation with the largest piece of the industry, which sits under 20 units. It's really around 10 units. Those people don't know where to go to get the information. So they do like spot hear things, and it's, some of it's contradictory, and some of it is just so far above what they can pay for, or they can access, or they have the time for, and I think you're, you're spot on. And there has to be, at some of these conferences, different tracks of information, where people can go and say, Look, I don't want to do all this, yeah, but I want to be in the business because I love it, and there's no shame in that. You're absolutely right. People have that hospitality and they want to be part of it. We should be embracing them and welcoming, welcoming them in but we also should be able, you know, be honest with them and not try to force them into that large bucket of operation with this big tech stack of something that they're just going to be overwhelmed with and never going to be able to manage because that's just not where their sites are set. So I think that it's about education. It's about the connections. I think you having a podcast with the audience that you have. Alex and I doing our podcast, there are different audiences, but we have some of the same challenges and worries and opportunities that are out there, and if we all work together. I absolutely think that there are management companies that could be they could mentor some of these people as they come up in the industry. And I think that's what Alex and I have tried to do through our connections, is mentor people in the business to say, like, you know, we don't know everything, but we can try to get you in front of the people to get the information, and so as long as everybody's willing to share. And I do think you you said it early on, people in this industry are so giving of their time and their knowledge and their experience, and we just need to keep doing that and help people be what they want to be, and quit trying to make everybody fit into a certain like lane, I guess would be the best way to say it. 

Zach Busekrus  48:19  
Yeah, 100% and on that note, too, you know, one of the, one of the things I'd love to see more of as, like a newcomer to to the industry, and I've barely, I've been to, like, one event I like, I need to, and I really don't listen to anything I'm saying, Folks, because I really don't know anything from my, from my limited observations, you know, I see like, a massive opportunity for managers in the space to, you know, to differentiate from, from like a state type perspective, right? Or like or like a kind of experience perspective, right? Oftentimes, vacation rental management companies are built primarily, like, regionally, right around a specific location, I think that there's so much opportunity to like, how do you become the vacation rental manager that does tree houses really well? Or, like, the vacation rental manager that really understands, like, the unique nuances that exist with domes. And there are loads of people, loads that are building these really cool, unique stays that have invested a lot of capital. They're, they're on entrepreneurs, like, they love the building of it. They hate management. They're not good at management, right? They're horrible at management. They're all these unique stays popping up all over the world, right? I know so many of these folks, and they're like, Zach, who? Like, who do I get to do the like, day to day ops? Like, I just, I can't I want to go. I want to go build my next site. And it's like, yeah, dude, you got a lot to prove. Still, management team. And so for anyone listening, that's like, feeling stuck in their business, or feeling like, hey, like, I, you know, maybe I want to go do something else. I think there's so much opportunity. And if you, if you just want to chat or, like, you know, network with me, I'd love, I'd love to just talk to anybody that might be interested in either pivoting their business or starting a new business. It's a little bit. More, rather than regionally focused, a little bit more focused on on a particular state type. Because I do think that there is, I mean, I don't think I know that there are entrepreneurs that are building these really exceptional experiences for the next generation of travelers that don't want to do the management work. So if you, if that's your bread and butter, if you're if you're crushing that, if you, if you love that, I think there's lots of partnerships to be had between the unique state developers and owners and the vacation rental management cohort who might be looking for some fresh inventory.

Alex Husner  50:32  
Totally. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, I mean. And even just as a comparison on the traditional model, I think companies, if you really specialize in condos or you really specialize in beach homes, you're a lot better than the company that just takes everything, and, you know, it does a fairly good job with both. I mean, there's, there's nuances, even in that kind of traditional type of type of inventory, that when you really understand you know one or the other, you're going to be you're going to be stronger at it, if that becomes really your specialty. So I think that makes a lot of sense. And I do think, to your point, of these people that they built these properties now they're realizing they hate to manage them, kind of, you know, similar spin there that I think that's also where we're seeing a lot of inventory that is now coming back to property management, coming back to property managers and onto programs, which is a great thing for, you know, all the professional hosts out there that have been just trying to compete like crazy on Airbnb the last couple years, because so much more inventory is there now. It's, you know, some of it's going back to professionally managed. So it's interesting times, and interesting how the pendulum just keeps swinging back and forth. But

Zach Busekrus  51:40  
yeah, at the end of the day, right? If you do hospitality, well, right? If you've got something unique about your business. And again, unique can to your to your point, Alex, can be, Hey, I like, know how to do condo management like nobody else, right? Yeah, that is unique. That is, that is a unique differentiator that you hold, whereas, if you know, if you know hospitality, if there's something that's unique, right? And if, at the end of the day, right, you're really just a good person and interested in, like, connecting and networking with people like you're going to be fine. You will find making creative way. There's a lot of there's a lot of noise in this industry, or at least there has been over the last few years. The number of, there's more money in like Airbnb courses than there are in actual like Airbnbs, meaning, like, the number of people that are out there preaching some gospel, asking you to spend $3,000 on, like, their get rich quick scheme. I mean, like, the number of people that I've talked to that have fallen for, I don't, I don't know if it's always fair to call them schemes, like they're not necessarily schemes, but you're talking to somebody who's not even operating in the business anymore. And you know, Annie, you said this on my show, right? It's like, you know some of these Airbnb guru guys, they're living in their parents basement, but they made a million dollars in July, right? Yeah, that disappeared. And so anyways, I think it's just worth remembering that there's so much content out there, there's so many resources out there, and tap into it as you as you can as you see fit, as as you find it helpful, but also just realize that at the end of the day, you know your business better than anybody else, right? You are in control of your destiny, right? It's it's up to you to decide what you want to do and how you want to grow and if you want to grow, and so remember to take in inputs, right, and network as as it makes sense. But at the end of the day, trust your gut, because what you're building is super special and unique for your circumstance, and that circumstance is wildly different than you know the the other person, the other you know, 1000 people that are listening to this podcast right now. Yeah, you're absolutely right. You're speaking our language.

Alex Husner  53:35  
Well, Zach, it has been such a pleasure to get to know you better today, and I know our listeners surely will have taken away some some really great thoughts and tidbits with them after this show. So if anybody wants to reach out, what's the best way for them to contact you? 

Zach Busekrus  53:50  
Yeah, I'm pretty active on on LinkedIn. I can send a link to you guys to just throw in the show notes, but just Zach Busekrus , or you can email me at Zach@staywatch.ai and if you are a manager that's interested in learning a little bit more about what we do at staywatch and how we work with y'all, just go to staywatch.ai/hosts, and there's some info there. And if anyone listening to this also just has a cool story and they want to come on my show and talk about how they've built their business, I really do love just connecting with people. So open invitation to reach out, share a little bit of your story with me, and if I think that you might be a good fit for for the podcast, I'd love to have you guys on the show.

Alex Husner  54:29  
Awesome. If anybody wants to get in touch with Annie and I you can go to alexandie podcast.com and until next time, thanks for tuning in, everybody. You.