The Journey is the Destination: How Mike Reinman Sold to Vacasa, then Opened 2 Casago Locations

[00:00:00] Welcome to Alex and Annie, the Real Women of Vacation Rentals. I'm Alex. And I'm Annie. And we are joined today with Mike Reinman, who is from Redwoods, California, and also has a vacation rental operation in Kona, Hawaii. Mike, great to see you. Thank you. Great to be here. And I should mention you are the Costco owner of those two locations also, which is, we're super excited to have you and hear more about your experience.

That's good. And Costco and up here in the Redwoods, the towns that people might know are Arcata and Eureka. And we're about an hour from the Oregon border on the coast. Beautiful area up there. So between the Redwoods of California and Kona Hawaii, you have some really great locations to hop back and forth to.

But before we get started, why don't you give us a little bit about your background, how you got into kitchen rentals and what brought you ultimately to the Costco family? Sounds great. Thank you. Gosh, [00:01:00] so it was interesting. I was pretty close on 9 11. I was about eight miles away driving to work and and all that stuff made me rethink things.

My kids were real small and we had to, they closed the office where we were at. So went back home and it was tough. I remember just trying to get away from like the news and stuff. So we went down to the beach and it was actually good surf and From a surfer. So we were surfing there, but it was so tough because the smoke from the towers were going over the beach and then you just knew there were so many people, going through it so badly.

But it got me just thinking maybe it's time to leave Jersey. And my wife was from California. I met her in the Peace Corps in Guatemala years before that. So we decided to relocate. And a lot of times when you move. You can take on a different role, different persona, because you're not around the same people, right?

And people, a lot of how you see yourself is also how people see you in that reflection. So when I came here I came to [00:02:00] California and I was doing some work with small businesses and things. So I used to be a bond trader and also worked on joint ventures and finance and stuff in in New Jersey and New York.

Was teaching and then teaching Spanish and working with small business owners that were Spanish speaking. And then I started teaching also and a friend of mine said, Hey, what about renting your your back place as a short term rental? Cause we have this cool little spot in Trinidad, California.

So we converted the garage and made it into it was a rental. We made it into a short term rental. There were some there in the town, but it was still pretty small. This was before there was like an Airbnb and stuff like that, so this was probably, gosh, 18, 19 years ago. And then and we're still great friends and we're both still in the business.

So anyway, that was the start of it was, did that and then reached out to, and then, and it was all word of mouth, really how we grew, started really small. I bought him out. He bought the other company that was in town. When I bought him out, I remember being nervous because we were managing like 25 houses and I was a teacher.

I'm like, [00:03:00] I can't do, I can't teach full time and do this business. I stopped teaching. I like teaching, but I really loved the business when I was teaching math and small business, computer science and stuff at high school. So then switched over and over a couple of years, the business really grew a lot and it was really great.

Seeing that and at the time when I sold, we were managing 142 properties. So we've grown quite a bit and it was fun and I really enjoyed it and had a great team and most of that team is actually still with. With La Casa. Oh, nice. Nice. Wow. That's, yeah, that's a good size portfolio too, before you sold.

So I can see you have a little foreshadowing there, but you what was, what happened as time went on and your decision to sell the company to Makassar and even selling, I had, I knew, or Brion through some of these different, I actually threw ResFest, it like years ago, those were fun actually.

Yeah. ResFest was a great conference. It was a good show. Yeah, it was. And there was a [00:04:00] lot of information and stuff. And I remember those that the night when people would arrive, they'd have that big party out in the pool area and stuff. And that was always a blast. And I always got in a lot of trouble at that party.

Yeah, we may have, I just may not, remember. So we, yeah, that was fun. I remember Vegas and all these other places. It was just a lot of fun. But, I had been I spoke to him, and stuff. And then he had tried it. He had asked me to come onto the team to like the senior management team or something.

This is years ago. They were still much smaller. And I said, I was good, with what I was doing. And then. Pursued a couple of times, I'd seen him at different things and stuff. And then they had, somebody reached out and then gave me an offer for the business and this was like a couple of years before I sold.

And it was like decent, but I was like, I'm good. And then they came back again and they're like, how would we do this again? And they, that point, I think that was like, maybe I think that was. Like May or something like that [00:05:00] of that year that I sold of 2019 and they had basically, you know they came up With a number and we went back forth a little bit and it was really fair And but then I said I came back the next day, I said, I'm sorry, I'm not going to do it, I just I really, I like the business, things are good and stuff, and that was all, and they were okay with it, and stuff, and then we heard, we were traveling, it was like August or something, we were traveling in Europe, and a real close friend of mine passed away.

And it was tough. It was sudden and it was unexpected and it was a tragic accident and stuff, and it just got me thinking about things a lot. And after that I decided I was gonna sell and just just look at things a little differently, maybe. So that's what I did. And went back to them and said, we'll do this.

And then, and it was great every time the offer was more significant. And I was basically like, look, it needs to be enough where I could retire. And it was. But I, I learned pretty quickly I'm not ready to [00:06:00] retire. So that was it. But that was the process. Yeah. And it was hard, and stuff.

And almost all the team is still with them. It's amazing. And, and they're pretty happy. There's, I know there's different stories you hear in general, I'd say the local team is pretty happy and doing well stuff, that is really good to hear. Yeah. Cause you're right.

And that's not, we've heard different variations of that story, but that's great that they're still there and I'm still a good local force, but so at some point then you decided you got out of it, but you still had the vacation run a bug and you wanted to get back in. So how did that lead you to Casa go into going into a different area?

Yeah. So when I. You know, before I sold, I was considering making it a Costco franchise up here. And it really would have been one of the first ones. It was, I was with Nick up in big bear, who's great. And we hung out and we were, I was definitely thinking about doing it. I remember He's great, him and Steve Schwab are both pilots and have their own planes and flying with those guys and stuff [00:07:00] and just, thinking about what I wanted to do, but I ended up selling instead of going with the franchise at that point.

But I stayed in contact with Steve and he was great. Just great ideas. And I really, when I met with them, I really, I love like Katrina and Bill and just everybody great group, Pilar and everybody down there. And I had started. And then I, so I started this, we started that right after I sold with a partner.

Tough. It's tough. We were getting properties and getting nice properties, but it was tough to be profitable because you were spending so, so many resources maintaining the properties because of infrastructure challenges in that area at that point. Maybe they're better now, but that was tough. Things like the electricity going out, the wifi, the internet going out, waterline problems, stuff like that.

Like it was a lot, deterioration, right? From the weather, right? It's a lot. Whole different types of issues than you had probably experienced. Yeah. Very different, and but then, but I still stayed in contact, with Steve and everybody. [00:08:00] And then he let me know about the opportunity in Hawaii, in Kona said, Hey, these guys just got into it like six months ago.

And it seems like maybe it's more than what they thought it would be. And it was, this was, they bought right in March of 20. So that was rough timing, right? And so they were struggling and super, good people. I'm friendly with them today. We talk all the time. I manage their property.

And so went out there Steve sent me the stuff was like early September sent me the numbers and started a dialogue with the broker. For the deal and then we went out there in October. Steve actually went out there with me for a week. I stayed for two weeks and really just examined the business.

And is this something I want to get into? It would be the first time owning a business where I'm not there. Which is a lot, right? The other one in Sayulita, I had a partner that lived there at the time, so that made it you know, manageable, but, so it was a different thing, and I remember we were there, we were in, and I was just trying to figure things out, and it was [00:09:00] tough, right?

It was hard, and I'm a runner, so I I went for a run. And I was just thinking about all the stuff and all. And I, I ran one way and I was like, I got to go back. And it was like, I had run for like maybe an hour and a half one way. So

it was like, I think I ran 18 miles or something. It was like, and it was hot, it was early morning. It's funny how you can get lost in your sometimes, and I'm sure that was crazy. Oh my gosh. But yeah, I went back and then, and I had decided at that point, I was like, yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to do this.

And then told Steve and stuff and all and then just move forward. And, it was a learning curve and there's ups and downs and stuff and all, but I've got a solid team, great people out there. Shout out to those guys. They're phenomenal. I've got Ryan and Zaz and Angela and Jackie and Janelle, great team.

And then we have. Support folks from cops to go over in Mexico and stuff and all. It's a solid team. It's really, it's fun. Yeah. So I'm always fascinated by people that work in Hawaii. Cause again, [00:10:00] for the rest of us, it's all like it's paradise. And you're, you have property there it's work.

Like you have to, it's a lot of work and being on an Island. Getting things in, it's more expensive. They obviously had a lot harder time kind of bouncing back from COVID because restrictions lasted there longer. You were transitioning when all of this was going on. So how did you navigate that?

Cause that had to have been there had to have been a lot of days when you were like, did I just lose my mind or am I doing the right thing? Cause I, I paid a lot of money for the business, and this was a risk, and that was definitely a part of it. But I also, I like risk too and stuff.

And I saw that it was gonna, it was, I had to, and actually it was amazing because I signed the. The the purchase agreement and then two weeks later, literally was when the first vaccine came out. And I was like, wow, that's, so it's great. But then there's like you had that.

So things started, eventually opening up a little bit, but it was tough. And then I remember like, All of a sudden things are going good and then the volcano is going off and people are like freaked out. Oh no yeah. What's next, so there's a lot there. But I think it's a [00:11:00] matter of keeping things in perspective.

Especially in the beginning, I was really working on keeping my costs down. So I didn't have crazy costs, fixed costs of the team and stuff. So I kept it small. But then have grown it since then and stuff too. So that was, the nice thing there, once it gets going is it's really a year round market.

So compared to other markets that are maybe four or five months. It's a year round market yeah, there's times when there's more demand than other time, but there's demand all year long. And so how did you? With Costco, so I would imagine having an organization that has Solid framework of support through their systems.

Pilar, I've heard great things about her. I would imagine that was a de a, definitely a boost to get you going and started knowing that you had that backbone there for you. Yeah, I don't think, I don't think I would've gone forward if Bell wasn't gonna be part of Costco. I'd say that having.

[00:12:00] The team because I already knew the team from silica, right? I was already knowing that I went down there. I did the training and stuff After doing that it gave me A lot more confidence that we would have the resources to help us grow and also streamline is a great software I had come from using escapia, right?

I used to use escapia. I remember going up there meeting them up in Like they're up in seattle when they were their own small company and then I, they were struggling financially. They had a great product, but they were struggling a little bit financially. This was years ago. And then this is, and then you had that group that started the HomeAway group, with Brian and those guys.

And then they, and I was like, oh, these guys, they should buy them. And they, three or four weeks later, they bought them. . Yeah, a lot. Escaping you. Put the bug in their ear. But yeah, great tools great people, great support. Whether it's. Pilar and her team and everything they do and a shout out to the whole group there to David and William and Danny.

Those guys are great.[00:13:00] Yeah, and I see how they move people up in their organization as well. And they really support them. That was really phenomenal. Tom and the pricing that they do that working with us on the pricing. There's so much we recently in Kona, we went to directed to booking.

com. We're doing this Expedia too now, and I've seen so such an increase in bookings from those channels. And the team at Costco helped so much with that. It would have been really tough doing it myself directly with booking. com support, because you don't get that same level that you do with Costco support.

Yeah. I think that's the biggest thing that I'm seeing as I've talked to companies in other areas that are considering becoming part of Costco is that. One of the biggest challenges they have is their software and that the support of the software, that even if they're on good software, if you don't have support and you don't have the guidance to get things done, that maybe you don't have time to read manuals and watch tutorial videos forever.

Like you're in, you're running the business, you're the boots on the ground. And that's been a game changer. [00:14:00] It seems so you're doing revenue management, are you doing revenue management or is cost doing your revenue management? Okay. No I'm doing it. I do that. Wait, is that an option?

maybe? I'll, that's after that. Yeah. I do it myself, but I do get a lot of support from Tom. And then now we've implemented RevMax where we were on market based pricing in Kona. And then we'll be probably on YieldMax, which is another RevMax tool for Redwoods as well. So I'm working on that also.

And then even for Kona, we'll do some hybrid as well. I was just talking to Tom about doing length of stay stuff and doing adjustments based on that and all, where those shorter stays, you can boost it up and then give discounts for the longer stuff, so all those kinds of things.

Yeah, those are great tools. And yeah they helped me quite a bit. Look, there's times when you just got to. Dig in and watch the videos and get help from whoever, deal with transparent and stuff. It took me some time to figure out like. I thought I was [00:15:00] doing everything right, but it wasn't going across, but it turned out it was like that.

A software issue with transparent or one of those guys, something with the account set up and all, but then they got it figured out and so it's working. So it's, it takes time, but it, yeah, so I do, it, it gives you a lot of confidence. It helps a lot. And also things like the orange meetings and stuff, those, we actually, we have one coming up on a while.

Yeah. Those are great. And then having the meetings, the one on ones with other owners sharing ideas. I just had a call with, I think it was Mike Wyman, who's got the spot up in like north of Austin there. And he's got some incredible experience because he came from one of the companies that had, I think there were like software, right?

So learning a lot of his insights up there. So many people with such great insight you'd have Jack over at Big Bear, that works with with Nick and he's got, he's such a sharp guy to also a pilot. Yeah. Here's a quick, here's a very quick story. I don't know whether you keep this or not, but so I was [00:16:00] going to big bear to meet to meet up with.

Nick and then we were flying to Mexico to meet up with Steve. Steve was flying in, we were flying in separately, and we were working together on some stuff in Ensenada. I was a reader looking at that market as an opportunity. I'm driving down and they were gonna meet me somewhere. I think I was gonna meet in San Francisco.

They said, hey, instead of that, let's our guy can meet you somewhere, like Healdsburg, was this little town that's like a place that's like a wine a wine area. On the way like north of Napa a little bit. So I'm driving down with a group of people because our flight was cancelled. To get to SF to take the transfer.

So instead we all rented a car. It's just, we didn't know each other. We just rented a car at the small airport here locally in Arcata. And we were driving down. Five hour drive. So he's calling me. So three hours down in Healdsburg. I go to this little airport, right? And they dropped me off. And I get there.

And this plane just comes in. And the guy and I like go up to it and it's Hey, I'm Jack and Jack is great. He's he's from [00:17:00] Italy. He's he's, and he really runs, he helps run the operation there in big bear. And they have I think 350 cabins they manage. They're big. And and so I get in the plane with them and I've been in some small planes before, but this is like a little, like a six heater and we start, we taxi out to the runway and he's he's we could go that way we could go this way north, towards the runway. He goes, and we'll probably make it, but he's I think it would be better if we went into the headwind instead and went the other way. I'm like, yeah, you'll probably make it if we're not sure. I don't know.

Probably not something you want to hear from a pilot. Yeah, that was the funniest thing. I was like, yeah, I said that was my story. Yeah. Oh, what an adventure. Yeah, that's cool. No, I love, the relationships that you form, within this community are so impactful. And I think.

Like you said, the information sharing that happens during our meetings and being able to just share information in a very, in a non competitive [00:18:00] way that there's no conflict of. Somebody in Texas sharing with you or vice versa or Myrtle Beach or Panama City Beach, we're all in our own markets and having that support of the community is great.

And I think a lot of vacation managers just feel like they're on their own that they're out on an island and they're making decisions based on what they read and what they hear, but they're not really that well connected either within their community or to the larger vacation rental industry in a lot of cases.

And it's, there's a lot of us that always go to the trade shows and that are active in these conversations, but a lot of people aren't, they're busy running their businesses. And I think there's just very much a loneliness in this business because it is, it's very time consuming and it's a lot of work to operate this, but, and you've certainly seen that with all the different.

Yeah. Yeah. Think about the issues that you've experienced working in such different markets. From Kona to Redwoods to Cellulita, like those are three completely different markets and to, to try and do that on your own is. Yeah, [00:19:00] probably not advisable.

It's not. Yeah, it's not. And I'll tell you, Bill Johnson, like I just had another meeting with him for maybe an hour yesterday. He is phenomenal on the operations side of things. Yeah, like coaching. He's a phenomenal coach, i, it's funny, I have a friend who is who's a coach of some of the big college football teams, the offensive coach, and I'm trying to get him to speak at one of our orange meetings just about coaching.

Yeah. Yeah, he's actually he was the coach of UNC. He was the UNC Phil Long is his name tough guy. But the real, the interesting thing is what Bill's doing, like he helps coach our team, especially our critical team members. So he works weekly with different members of the team in Kona and also here in Redwoods.

And that really helps a lot, because that's how I see myself too, like I'm working with the teams, but I'm not boots on the ground there here [00:20:00] in Redwoods I am sometimes I'm a little more like I'll go out to meetings with homeowners and stuff and work on some things. But in general, I've got my operation slash property manager here.

And there we have that and builds great at doing that and helping me do that better as well. So that's huge. If I wasn't doing this I could try and find some mentors maybe that would do that, but that's tough. And it's funny too, you've got the time and Stacy Wesson, like up in up in Bend, it was so funny because her and I met at a res fest.

Conference I bet it was, I bet it was like nine, I don't know, nine years ago, 10 years ago with her and her husband, and then we recognized each other in the orange meeting. I'm like, Hey. Oh my gosh. That's too funny. Wow. Yeah. Like it's a blackjack table till three in the morning. A bunch of us.

It's a super small world. What's the phrase birds of a feather flock together. Always ends up being that way. Yeah, I I'm, bill Johnson is our director of operations for Costco that Mike was just talking about, but [00:21:00] he's coming to Myrtle Beach in the next couple months to meet with our local location here to give that same level of support that you mentioned.

So I'm excited to see him in action. I've been on many demo calls with him and I haven I haven't seen him in the field, so I'm excited to see what he's gonna bring these guys. But no, he's great cuz he can get down to the weeds and really focus on like, how, like what are you doing as a property manager?

What are you doing when you first get to the office? What's your time and what's your rhythm? What's your schedule for going out there and stuff, really important stuff. And he used to be, he was a director of operations and he switched to partner success. Because he really wanted to focus on like that.

And that's a really good switch actually. That's right. I have the wrong title there. Yeah no. And he's phenomenal, man. He's yeah he's great. And I know there's new people that are working on the partner success also, but it's key. The best story, Bill, though, is he's, he was a homeowner of Costco.

He was a Costco homeowner in Rocky point where Costco was founded and then be, then [00:22:00] worked for the company. I remember the first demo that I was on with them. He told that story way later in the demo. And I said, you've got to tell people that up front, that's such a great and compelling story that you actually, you used all of our services as a homeowner and then decided you were so happy that you just wanted to join us.

So they're cutting the steam, but. Yeah, that's cool stuff. Yeah, I am. I my husband and I started a management company. We had been in a management company for years and we started one with some folks and we had worked in management bleach at our disciplines. And one of the things that I think that I look back now and then I see what Costco can do in some other like franchise type models, just being able to give you that.

That box of stuff to get started. So you, it answers all the questions. These are the things I need to have in place. And I think that what I've seen from Casa Go and maybe one other similar type in the business is that just that support that you need to know that again, you ask these questions and you think am I crazy for having this thought?

And then, and the nice thing about it is. You're not crazy. You're having the [00:23:00] same thoughts that other people are, but you can come together and not feel like you like Alex, you were saying like out on that island alone. And I think that's something that's so important. And we talk about on the show, a lot is educating people from that first unit all the way up.

And if you set the foundation, you can go anywhere. You can really go into any market, but you just have to have that support to get through those little hurdles in the beginning. And I think just given the different markets that you've. been in or and you're in, you've probably seen more than most anybody would see in one specific market.

I would guess you see a lot. Yeah. And it's you get just what you're saying. You get the, with Costco and probably some others, but I don't know, but with Costco, you get that frequency of support, that high frequency and also the depth. There's going to be someone on the team that can go really deep on that and really know well like integration with integrating with the OTAs very specific, it gets very detailed, and they're going to know that stuff you know so, and then hopefully you have [00:24:00] something you can bring to the table also and I just learned this I can share this with you.

So that's so key. And you have the breadth you have, there's people in all different areas, but it's so important that it's happening all the time. It's always available. And you're having, besides like the chats that we have that are every day, you have this weekly meeting where I can reach out to someone that I know on the team or someone that to me is on the team.

Also, that's a franchise owner or that works at one of the franchises. Like I reached out to Jack at big bear when I had some questions about some accounting finance stuff, like how to do it super helpful. And we're not like, it's not like we're like. We're like not available or we're charging someone or whatever.

It's all we're just working together to make it better. Yeah, everybody's going in the same direction Yeah, exactly I'm curious to know, after you worked for Vacasa for a few months during that transition period and you got to see their systems, their software, stuff like that was, did you have any sort of an Ajna moment in that time of okay, now I can understand maybe there is a [00:25:00] benefit of.

The larger company like did seeing that like back of the house and influence you at all to say, that's why I need something like a Costco that gives me that, larger company resources, but it still lets me be smaller. Like I just, I can only imagine they had probably a lot of tools that you had, have not had access to prior to selling the company.

Yeah, I would say it's probably the opposite probably seeing that, seeing like that operation. I just saw the part that I was working on, but I'm like, this is not for me. This is like this corporate thing. And there were people that had their area of expertise. Someone might have an area of expertise, but because it's so narrow, they're not really, they're missing a lot of stuff.

I remember some things that were happening. I was like like they, what they're saying or what they're teaching or what they think is the case, they're not really [00:26:00] looking at a broad enough thing because you have people that had a much more narrow thing. They never ran a short term rental business.

They never, they did this. They're just like focused on owner acquisition, say, and that's it. But there's so many aspects to it. I did, I was supported in doing the, I was just brought in to do owner acquisition. But also for me, I'm like, I don't want to like, it's just such a narrow thing.

And you can tell like the stuff I do. I like doing a lot of different things. Yeah. So owning a franchise allows me to do that allows me to wear so many different hats every day. That's really fun, right? As opposed to if you're just doing this one thing every day, that can be tough, man. That's not my scene and it hasn't been for forever.

So yeah. That's nice to know how you, Oh, I'm sorry. No. Okay. Okay. I was going to say, it's nice to know like what your actions are, like your actions and what your duties do, how they affect the other downstream or upstream in the business. And I think that's what this business is so great is that everybody that's been in it for a while, if you [00:27:00] haven't been like in a big corporate type entity, you've done everything.

Even you found what you like and what you're most passionate, but you can pitch in. If you need to when somebody's in a bind and you just know so much about the broader spectrum of the business and it just makes you a more well, rounded manager. I think so. And I know I was terrible at doing the cleaning, and I was also terrible at doing the maintenance repairs.

But you find someone that's passionate about that and they do that well. Yeah,

it's been fun it's been a fun journey. And, I'm excited about it, these businesses, I plan on having them for a long time. And also I try really hard to make sure that. My incentives are aligned with the team and that everyone is everyone feels pretty pretty satisfied fulfilled.

And also that, monetarily that They share in the success of the business. And [00:28:00] I think that's really important to put your money where your mouth is. So I do that and I also, I delegate I, I trust my people and I also work hard to give them the tools and also make sure that as a coach that I am pushing them to the point of discomfort sometimes.

Like where they've got to step out a little bit and do that and then figure those things out and move forward right it's surfing like sometimes I go out there when I'm a little uncomfortable maybe there's a big rip or the swell's a little bigger than I wanted stuff you push when I'm in Hawaii, I'm working a lot when I'm there, but I also like surf and run super early in the morning.

And I'm going to these places. I don't know. People I don't know. And like, how do you get in the water and stuff, and what's the best way around and what are the reefs like and all that stuff. It's a little uncomfortable, but once you do it, you meet people and you grow and you feel good about it too.

And that's been really nice. And then like you meet people there and they're like, Oh, are you from somewhere else? I'm like, yeah, but I actually come here frequently and stuff. And they get a little friendly too. I love that it's about pushing outside of [00:29:00] comfort zones. That's definitely something that we talk about a theme that's pretty common within our show and something that Annie and I have definitely leaned into over the last year and a half of doing this show and in both of our roles.

And I think your team is very lucky to have you as a leader, Mike, I think you do a great job. And in your location, in both your locations, and I love you. I love your show. I listened to a lot of your episodes and you guys do great interviews. I keep saying you guys it's from, I'm from New Jersey and that's at least you don't say use guys,

That would be more New York. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. But it's fun. Oh, it was funny. Your, a recent interview, you re, you interviewed somebody that I think was talking about the Jersey Shore. Yes. Yeah. Steven. So it was so funny because, so I grew up, down by the beach there and we never, so we would never say the Jersey shore.

That's what people said that were from out of the area. The tour. Oh yeah. He actually, he lives in North Carolina, so that's why. Yeah. That's it. [00:30:00] They say the Jersey shore and there was that show that made it real popular, snooki. And so it was really funny because for us, which like, it was the beach, and stuff like that.

But I know they call the area, the Jersey shore and stuff. It's funny, but like that, like my mom grew up in Jersey city. So she would say like the Jersey shore, but for us as like locals, we would never just be like, yeah, you're like local surfers and stuff and all, but but that's cool. And I was, I want to see how he does.

I hope he, he grows well. I know it's a strong market there and I know it's very different. I think it's very different than. Then say the California market or Hawaii. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Awesome. Thank you, Mike, so much for joining us today. This has been a pleasure to get to know you a little bit more and hear your journey.

And we wish you nothing but the best of luck the rest of this year. If anybody wants to get in touch with you, what's the best way to reach out? Best way is to just send me a quick email. Mike at Pasago Kona dot com. That's a great way. And then, yeah, I do LinkedIn a little bit and that kind of stuff, but just an email [00:31:00] is great.

And then I'll reach out. Yeah. I love what I do and I love helping people and stuff. It's definitely a fun thing. I used to be a teacher, so if I can help and stuff I'm always there for that. And I really appreciate what you both do. Very much. See, I didn't say guys that time.

Thank you so much, Mike. If anybody wants to contact Annie and I, you can go to alexandanniepodcast. com. And until next time, thank you so much for tuning in. Make sure to subscribe and we will see you next tim